Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Elon Musk Confronts a Fateful Tweet and an ‘Excruciating’ Year

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 377 posts

Re: Elon Musk Confronts a Fateful Tweet and an ‘Excruciating’ Year

#91

Post by nickik »

archagon wrote: post #14
_bxg1 wrote: post #7

This was about what I'd gathered. He's been reckless and made some huge errors in judgement over the past year, but despite it all I hope he succeeds. I don't think he's a hero or a saint like some people do, but his endeavors are having a very real and tangible positive effect on civilization. Most chiefly, as bad as the climate change situation looks right now, it would be so much worse without the insane amount of…

> Character flaws aside, Musk is the only billionaire alive (or even in recent memory) whose business ventures are netting any actual positive effect on society whatsoever. Wait, what? How can you possibly justify that? > Heck, he might be the only one not having a seriously detrimental effect on society right now. You don't have to like him to acknowledge that. What about all those recent self-driving crashes? At be…

Honestly, in the world that you are imaging we never would get any kind of self-driving ever.

Re: Elon Musk Confronts a Fateful Tweet and an ‘Excruciating’ Year

#92

Post by skrebbel »

tomhoward wrote: post #37

But, he added, “if you have anyone who can do a better job, please let me know. They can have the job. Is there someone who can do the job better? They can have the reins right now.” I think this hits at the crux of the issue around the performance/behaviour of Musk and other leaders of hugely ambitious companies. And I think it highlights the importance of thinking about what kinds of people it will take to lead the…

There's a hidden false dichotomy there: That Tesla and Space X couldn't exist / succeed without Musk working his employees and himself into a burnout. I'm not sure that that is true. The same Musk with the same employees could've perfectly well done these companies at a sane pace - maybe even without losing speed in the grand scheme of things given that less stuff would've gone wrong.

Re: Elon Musk Confronts a Fateful Tweet and an ‘Excruciating’ Year

#93

Post by nickik »

Animats wrote: post #11

"Then he got in a Tesla Model S and drove himself to the airport. En route, Mr. Musk typed his fateful message." Don't text while driving. This going private thing is a strange idea. Sell Tesla to the Saudi sovereign wealth fund? The one dedicated to keeping oil a viable industry? Does he want Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud as a boss? That makes no sense. Softbank might make sense. Part of Musk's problem seems to be "O…

You do understand that the Saudi would not control the company right?

Re: Elon Musk Confronts a Fateful Tweet and an ‘Excruciating’ Year

#94

Post by close04 »

skrebbel wrote: post #92
tomhoward wrote: post #37

But, he added, “if you have anyone who can do a better job, please let me know. They can have the job. Is there someone who can do the job better? They can have the reins right now.” I think this hits at the crux of the issue around the performance/behaviour of Musk and other leaders of hugely ambitious companies. And I think it highlights the importance of thinking about what kinds of people it will take to lead the…

There's a hidden false dichotomy there: That Tesla and Space X couldn't exist / succeed without Musk working his employees and himself into a burnout. I'm not sure that that is true. The same Musk with the same employees could've perfectly well done these companies at a sane pace - maybe even without losing speed in the grand scheme of things given that less stuff would've gone wrong.

> Do we actually want Tesla and SpaceX to fail?

Is their success hanging on Musk calling someone a pedo? Because much of that hate came from unwarranted stuff like this.

Re: Elon Musk Confronts a Fateful Tweet and an ‘Excruciating’ Year

#95

Post by dantheman »

pzone wrote: post #74
icc97 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But when I see the hate and vitriol heaped on him, I'm compelled to wonder just what alternative universe people are hoping for. > Do we actually want Tesla and SpaceX to fail? This is an issue for anyone trying to change things, haters hate anyone successful and do just want them to fail. Elon does also though have a ton of fans (of which I'm one) so he does get the benefits too. But the haters don't seem to bothe…

> It's just the short sellers who could bankrupt Tesla. But that's their job. Let's be clear that the thing that the only thing that could actually cause Tesla to go bankrupt would be failing to produce and deliver products as promised. Short sellers, at most, may speed up the clock a bit.

Most companies in their early days can easily fail -- the more ambitious they are the more likely they are on the edge. Short sellers are part of the market - I completely agree. But when you have made these giant bets, then you are actively trying to make them fail - stop further investment, dissuade customers, promote disinformation, etc.

When trying to do something new and difficult - the status quo can easily throw rocks; and it takes 10x the effort clear up bullshit than to generate it.

Re: Elon Musk Confronts a Fateful Tweet and an ‘Excruciating’ Year

#96

Post by wastedhours »

hobofan wrote: post #86
_bxg1 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The self-driving crashes have mostly been users using autopilot irresponsibly, from what I've read. Still, I'm not arguing the finer points; both Musk the person and Tesla the company have made some bad, sometimes even ethically dubious decisions. My point was that, for all of today's Captains Of Industry "solving problems" that's don't actually exist, dismantling democracy and privacy and destroying millions of peop…

> The self-driving crashes have mostly been users using autopilot irresponsibly Tesla has been advertising the autopilot capabilities irresponsibly. With advertising like that on their website[0] they should be held accountable (at least partially at fault) for crashes resulting from autopilot failure. [0]: https://www.tesla.com/autopilot

This is one of my few bugbear's about Tesla - other than this I think they're doing a fine job making EVs seem cool and changing perceptions[0]. I just wish they'd not have named it "Autopilot". That is such a loaded term that to me it's exceptionally disingenuous to claim it implies anything other than self-driving.

I work in marketing, I'm always looking for the best spin to put on an offering, but I shake my head every time I see "Autopilot" used when they actually just mean "better than average driving assistance".

[0] whether or not they succeed as a company is a different point, their importance to me is wider than their actual business and whether they flame out or not is, presently, neither here nor there.

Re: Elon Musk Confronts a Fateful Tweet and an ‘Excruciating’ Year

#97

Post by skrebbel »

close04 wrote: post #94
skrebbel wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a hidden false dichotomy there: That Tesla and Space X couldn't exist / succeed without Musk working his employees and himself into a burnout. I'm not sure that that is true. The same Musk with the same employees could've perfectly well done these companies at a sane pace - maybe even without losing speed in the grand scheme of things given that less stuff would've gone wrong.

> Do we actually want Tesla and SpaceX to fail? Is their success hanging on Musk calling someone a pedo ? Because much of that hate came from unwarranted stuff like this.

I think you're replying to the wrong post.

Re: Elon Musk Confronts a Fateful Tweet and an ‘Excruciating’ Year

#98

Post by matrixagent »

tomhoward wrote: post #37

But, he added, “if you have anyone who can do a better job, please let me know. They can have the job. Is there someone who can do the job better? They can have the reins right now.” I think this hits at the crux of the issue around the performance/behaviour of Musk and other leaders of hugely ambitious companies. And I think it highlights the importance of thinking about what kinds of people it will take to lead the…

"and they will inevitably have extreme personality traits" – I find that a pretty bold claim and don't believe it to be true. And I'd much rather settle Mars a few hundred years later if that in turn means that Mars will be settled by not-so-big-assholes than if it happened sooner.

Re: Elon Musk Confronts a Fateful Tweet and an ‘Excruciating’ Year

#99

Post by wastedhours »

Fnoord wrote: post #41
dwaltrip wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure it's always been the case that those with power can cause a lot of damage with a small amount of effort.

Yes, but those in power were able to get away with it in the past. Now they're held accountable, in public, like a public crucifixion. Pressure of 21st century is enormous.

Not just the 21st century, this story on Ratners losing billions after some ill-thought jokes at the company's expense: https://thehustle.co/gerald-ratners-billion-dollar-speech

Re: Elon Musk Confronts a Fateful Tweet and an ‘Excruciating’ Year

#100

Post by darkerside »

CJefferson wrote: post #43
tomhoward wrote: post #37

But, he added, “if you have anyone who can do a better job, please let me know. They can have the job. Is there someone who can do the job better? They can have the reins right now.” I think this hits at the crux of the issue around the performance/behaviour of Musk and other leaders of hugely ambitious companies. And I think it highlights the importance of thinking about what kinds of people it will take to lead the…

I want to live in a universe where you at least apologise for calling someone a pedo, or yes, you get kicked out.

I have to assume some facetiousness here, but you are literally advocating not just against freedom of speech, but in favor of forcing your desired speech onto others. Some might perceive that as evil.
Post reply on HN