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NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

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Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#381

Post by h4b4n3r0 »

AngryData wrote: post #279
monocasa wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IDK. The same thought process led me to not being able to complete college due to financial reasons. Despite being emancipated, FAFSA still considers you a dependent until you're 24. I was told that only with documentation of leaving an abusive household would a dependency exception grant be applied. So according to FAFSA I was supposed to use all this money that I didn't have to pay for college. By 24 I had dropped…

I think not being able to default on your student loans is the main factor in rising costs. There is no reason not to give out a student loan of any amount if it is guaranteed money. And there are many people who struggled to graduate highschool, or people who have no idea what they want to do in life in any way, that are getting crazy large loans to go to very expensive and demanding schools and and are very likely…

I like the idea of withholding tuition from future earnings. That way we can get rid of all the "underwater basketweaving" courses that are so popular today, and focus on the ones that the economy actually needs (as in, is willing to pay top dollar for).

There's one "but" however: this does absolutely nothing to improve affordability, so some mechanism needs to be devised to reduce overhead costs, and put a cap on profits. I would prefer if that mechanism were market-based as well.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#382

Post by perfmode »

h4b4n3r0 wrote: post #381
AngryData wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think not being able to default on your student loans is the main factor in rising costs. There is no reason not to give out a student loan of any amount if it is guaranteed money. And there are many people who struggled to graduate highschool, or people who have no idea what they want to do in life in any way, that are getting crazy large loans to go to very expensive and demanding schools and and are very likely…

I like the idea of withholding tuition from future earnings. That way we can get rid of all the "underwater basketweaving" courses that are so popular today, and focus on the ones that the economy actually needs (as in, is willing to pay top dollar for). There's one "but" however: this does absolutely nothing to improve affordability, so some mechanism needs to be devised to reduce overhead costs, and put a cap on pr…

education is about more than the economy

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#383

Post by jeandejean »

That's an amazing news! Being aware that education costs a lot is important, but being able to afford education is paramount.

Having to sacrifice 10 years of first jobs savings to reimburse the student loan is just insane. Especially considered tuition is skyrocketing without any meaningful reason: education is not better in that proportion than 10/15 years ago.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#384

Post by GeneralMayhem »

h4b4n3r0 wrote: post #381
AngryData wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think not being able to default on your student loans is the main factor in rising costs. There is no reason not to give out a student loan of any amount if it is guaranteed money. And there are many people who struggled to graduate highschool, or people who have no idea what they want to do in life in any way, that are getting crazy large loans to go to very expensive and demanding schools and and are very likely…

I like the idea of withholding tuition from future earnings. That way we can get rid of all the "underwater basketweaving" courses that are so popular today, and focus on the ones that the economy actually needs (as in, is willing to pay top dollar for). There's one "but" however: this does absolutely nothing to improve affordability, so some mechanism needs to be devised to reduce overhead costs, and put a cap on pr…

I very heartily disagree with letting the market decide education priorities, for two reasons.

First, education is chock full of positive externalities, which will never be realized correctly. While "the economy" doesn't need underwater basket weaving - or art history, or literature - society still does. Even if people don't work in their field, the world is better for the increase in knowledge. Man does not live on engineering alone.

Second, the invisible hand can only do its work in a world where the effects of decisions are predictable. Given the long lead time on a choice of major affecting your income - at least four years, arguably more if you factor in choice of AP classes on high school - that's never going to be the case. Say this system had been in place in the 90s, and say you're okay with underwater basket weaving students getting the short end of the stick because, well, they signed up for it. Fine. But what do you say to the computer science class of 2001?

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#385

Post by nostrebored »

rrcaptain wrote: post #371
pitaj wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember when college used to be cheap enough for people to afford working summers? I don't remember because that was before my time, but that was also before the subsidies and loans were made available by the feds. Turns out, if you dump money into an industry while increasing demand and not changing supply, prices will increase.

That was because states covered most of the budget. Austerity policies changed that. And supply and demand is not applicable to macroeconomics, which education is part of.

States still cover most of the budget. As someone who went to school while poor and on a scholarship, I hated this, the price was so inflated because

1) The government pays the majority of it if you're poor, schools know you'll pay 2) If you're middle class your parents pay half of it, the government pays half of it, schools know they'll pay 3) If you're upper class, you might have a legacy admission and the school knows your parents will pay and probably donate to the school too

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#386

Post by pfisch »

wyattpeak wrote: post #378
duxup wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're right, at the same time if allowed to walk from student loans... wouldn't we see a similar incentive on the student side? I would find it pretty tempting when graduating to ... default. You've got plenty of time to fish your way out of bankruptcy as you're young, you don't have much for assets or anything...

That seems fine to me. Banks are in the business of calculating risk on loans, they can work out under what conditions they're willing to loan money to students who have little to lose by declaring bankruptcy. If they basically shut down all student funding, that doesn't seem like a huge problem either - it's a fairly bad model and I think society would benefit for from the pressure to find a better way to educate pe…

That would cause a crazy economic implosion in the education sector. Anything like that would need to be done very gradually or else there would be massive layoffs at every university all at once.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#387

Post by pfisch »

h4b4n3r0 wrote: post #381
AngryData wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think not being able to default on your student loans is the main factor in rising costs. There is no reason not to give out a student loan of any amount if it is guaranteed money. And there are many people who struggled to graduate highschool, or people who have no idea what they want to do in life in any way, that are getting crazy large loans to go to very expensive and demanding schools and and are very likely…

I like the idea of withholding tuition from future earnings. That way we can get rid of all the "underwater basketweaving" courses that are so popular today, and focus on the ones that the economy actually needs (as in, is willing to pay top dollar for). There's one "but" however: this does absolutely nothing to improve affordability, so some mechanism needs to be devised to reduce overhead costs, and put a cap on pr…

This whole idea of taxing future earnings is like one step away from indentured servitude.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#388

Post by nostrebored »

Analemma_ wrote: post #340
thedufer wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> let students discharge student loans via bankruptcy This is a fine idea, but you have to recognize that this just means approximately no one gets student loans (and those who do get them don't need them). Think about it: if you come out of college with, say, $20k of debt (granting that this might bring down prices) and no assets, bankruptcy is a very tempting option. Student loans are just inherently problematic -…

Bull. Student loans did not become non-dischargeable until the mid-2000’s; and before that plenty of people got loans and there was no epidemic of graduates immediately declaring bankruptcy. You’re spouting propaganda talking points from predatory lenders.

There actually was. Particularly with doctors and lawyers.

Among regular students, not as much, but discharging hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt for a few years of bad credit when you're making hundreds of thousands of dollars is a great deal. It was a rational decision to make.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#389

Post by aesclepius »

aabajian wrote: post #51
glitchc wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I may ask, how exactly do you have the time to be both a resident and a software developer? There aren't enough hours in the day. Do you even sleep?

I did a prelim-surgery intern year. The hours are worse than medicine, but there are way less "mandatory" activities (no lectures, no endless rounding, etc.). For the most part, you're on the floor waiting for pages. I used the time between pages to write code. Now I'm a radiology resident and have much more time.

That's pretty impressive. My time between pages was spent asleep or reading reddit/HN.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#390

Post by aesclepius »

GoodOldNe wrote: post #28
gachavez wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fellow MD student here. I feel your pain. I've planning to just do PGY-1, work as a GP at urgent care night/weekends and do software dev full time.

You're going to work as a "GP" with at most one third of the training of almost every other doctor in practice? Seems like you're shorting your future patients a bit. My advice as someone who sees a lot of patients who were incompetently managed at urgent care is to avoid going this route. You're setting yourself and your patients up to fail with potentially devastating consequences.

> You're going to work as a "GP" with at most one third of the training of almost every other doctor in practice?

Not really a GP, more like a glorified triage nurse. Urgent care is where they give antibiotics out generically, and immediately transfer anybody sicker to the ED. (worked there, done that as part of residency)

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