Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Suicidal Vet Calls MDMA Treatment ‘a Miracle'

thedailybeast.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 82 posts

Re: Suicidal Vet Calls MDMA Treatment ‘a Miracle'

#61

Post by travmatt »

kw71 wrote: post #58
ClassyJacket wrote: post #3

I have no doubts, and I'm so thankful of the research that MAPS is doing. I haven't even been thru any trauma and MDMA pulled me out of depression and greatly reduced my anxiety. It was an absolute miracle for me. It disgusts me that the stuff is illegal while cigarettes and alcohol are not. AMA.

It certainly seems like that when you are stuck in a deep, dark hole, an altered consciousness might be the best chance to find some motivation. Like realizing that there is good in the world and you can be a part of it. MDMA brings some health risks that shouldn't be viewed lightly, though. Be careful.

MAPS is one of the few organizations in the USA legally permitted by the FDA & DEA to conduct clinical research into using schedule 1 substances as medicines to assist psychotherapists and other medical professionals. If you genuinely believe that psychedelics hold potential help improve mental health, MAPS is the organization that bringing these ideas to clinical trial.

In addition to clinical research they also do a lot of public education on harm reduction and safety regarding psychedelics, so they’re an excellent resource for people who have questions or could possibly benefit from participating in a clinical trial.

Re: Suicidal Vet Calls MDMA Treatment ‘a Miracle'

#62

Post by travmatt »

clay_the_ripper wrote: post #18
fhood wrote: post #5

MDMA can be extremely dangerous to your long term mental health. I'm not saying it doesn't have valid medical benefits, it certainly seems to, but if you consumed MDMA at any where near the frequency it is safe to consume alcohol it would not go well. Don't get me wrong, I think it should be legal, but lets not pretend it is comparable to alcohol. Edit: TL;DR MDMA probably has incredible medical benefits, but this do…

Pretty much any drug can be extremely dangerous. I see this response often (and I’m not critzizing you here) but look: painkillers, right? Given all the time. Can be EXTREMELY dangerous. Alcohol: CAN BE extremely dangerous. Millions of people die a year in alcohol related death. Nicotine: dangerous. Blood pressure medication: can be dangerous. Birth control pills...also dangerous. Drugs are freaking dangerous. Anythi…

MDMA is well understood to have the potential to induce neurotoxicity, so people may want to slow down and learn more about why that is before they take the ‘yolo’ approach.

Re: Suicidal Vet Calls MDMA Treatment ‘a Miracle'

#63

Post by travmatt »

guildenstern wrote: post #37
mg794613 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry but few times a week is not recreational anymore. your brain needs rest for some months to rebuild/rest the receptors. truly these substances are controlled because they need little to get an overdose (at least in developed countries). It is a risk prevention measure because not everybody has the iq of 100

Recreational usage is not relative to the substance, it’s dependent on behaviour. If you’re dependent on a substance (whether that’s physically dependent or mentally) you’re no longer a recreational user but if you’re using something frequently or infrequently for enjoyment then you are a recreational user — regardless of whether or not that substance is safe to use at your chosen frequency.

I think the point was you can’t claim recreational usage when you are using the substance in such a way that you will be doing harm.

Re: Suicidal Vet Calls MDMA Treatment ‘a Miracle'

#64

Post by village-idiot »

forgotmypwagain wrote: post #60
village-idiot wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fermentation and alcohol for consumption are quite different, as you’re probably aware. My kombucha is technically fermented, but good luck getting drunk on it. There is also a sizable difference between more traditional forms of alcohol and cheap high proof spirits harm wise. Plus since this is a counterfactual, we don't actually need alcohol for preservation anymore. We have refrigeration. The bit about Germany and…

Sure not all fermentation produces alcohol, but many fermenting organisms do. And of course it’s observational bias, I said that I personally can’t imagine how the culture of these countries would be without alcohol, though I’m sure people would get along just fine (we don’t need alcohol to survive after all). Just saying that not everything needs to be banned, otherwise we might as well ban sugar and salt as they pr…

I never said it needed to be banned, I’m saying that if we didn’t have a long history with it we probably wouldn’t allow it.

Re: Suicidal Vet Calls MDMA Treatment ‘a Miracle'

#65

Post by ClassyJacket »

mdahlstrand wrote: post #9
ClassyJacket wrote: post #3

I have no doubts, and I'm so thankful of the research that MAPS is doing. I haven't even been thru any trauma and MDMA pulled me out of depression and greatly reduced my anxiety. It was an absolute miracle for me. It disgusts me that the stuff is illegal while cigarettes and alcohol are not. AMA.

Am very interested in hearing more about the methods you used. Did you just take MDMA recreationally and your depression got better, or did you do it together with (or at the same time as?) therapy? How many times/over how long time? Thank you

Recreationally in a pretty stereotypical way. Out in places I was able to meet new people primarily, but it's also very therapeutic to do with a loved one or good friends.

Generally about 200mg in a night, usually at once or 100mg twice an hour apart. That was actually quite alot to start on when you don't have a tolerance (I'm about 60kg), you could definitely start with 100mg and get something out of it. Sometimes I'd do more, sometimes less.

I was able to notice the lowered depression after two or maybe three doses within the span of about six weeks or less. No therapy, except the natural therapy of feeling very comfortable with people and being able to talk to them more honestly. Definitely had some therapy-like conversations while on it.

It felt like I was able to let go of a bunch of stupid stuff and start focusing on things that were more important, especially people. I became less materialistic, started socializing more, and had more confidence in myself and a better outlook on the future. I also seem to enjoy music more even after weeks without drugs, which is nice.

Re: Suicidal Vet Calls MDMA Treatment ‘a Miracle'

#66

Post by ClassyJacket »

guildenstern wrote: post #29
clay_the_ripper wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much any drug can be extremely dangerous. I see this response often (and I’m not critzizing you here) but look: painkillers, right? Given all the time. Can be EXTREMELY dangerous. Alcohol: CAN BE extremely dangerous. Millions of people die a year in alcohol related death. Nicotine: dangerous. Blood pressure medication: can be dangerous. Birth control pills...also dangerous. Drugs are freaking dangerous. Anythi…

Yes but MDMA specifically will mangle your brain after very little recreational usage relative to almost all other drugs. Recreational use of MDMA a few times a week is _very bad_ on the long term health of your brain, very few other drugs are on that level — certainly none of the drugs you’ve listed.

"a few times a week" is considered pretty insane for even heavy users. I don't think that just about anybody is advocating that frequency of use. Regardless of long term effects I think most people would be feeling pretty messed up by the end of that week.

Once a week is sustainable in the short term but I am not recommending that and make no claims as to its safety in the long term. I would have no way of knowing other than googling studies.

That being said I'd still like a source for the claim:

"Yes but MDMA specifically will mangle your brain after very little recreational usage relative to almost all other drugs."

Re: Suicidal Vet Calls MDMA Treatment ‘a Miracle'

#67

Post by phnk »

dgzl wrote: post #16
ClassyJacket wrote: post #3

I have no doubts, and I'm so thankful of the research that MAPS is doing. I haven't even been thru any trauma and MDMA pulled me out of depression and greatly reduced my anxiety. It was an absolute miracle for me. It disgusts me that the stuff is illegal while cigarettes and alcohol are not. AMA.

What is your dose/frequency? I've experienced with a lot of drugs, and it's true that MDMA has some seriously beneficial effects in terms of turning around depression, anxiety, introversion, etc. However I've never used these or other (hard) drugs more than periodically and recreationally.

> depression, anxiety, introversion, etc.

That's a whole array of pathologies and symptoms, for which there is no single pharmacological solution.

Many comments in this thread are over-standardising mental illness as well as the (supervised administration) therapy presented in the linked article, which is about much more than dosage and frequency. On top of that, the patient in the article expresses many specificities that are unlikely to be matched by most patients.

This is, to me, the first negative aspect of banning a drug -- it suppressed 99% of the potential evidence base and replaces it with poor 'SWIM-based' anecdotes.

Re: Suicidal Vet Calls MDMA Treatment ‘a Miracle'

#68

Post by phnk »

microcolonel wrote: post #50
ClassyJacket wrote: post #3

I have no doubts, and I'm so thankful of the research that MAPS is doing. I haven't even been thru any trauma and MDMA pulled me out of depression and greatly reduced my anxiety. It was an absolute miracle for me. It disgusts me that the stuff is illegal while cigarettes and alcohol are not. AMA.

Yeah, there really is no moral excuse for any restriction (or even tax) on the purchase of chemicals which are broadly safe for consumption, completely generic, and of considerable medicinal value. I am convinced that there are more people who would begin to benefit from unprescribed private self-medication with MDMA than who would begin to suffer suffer harm.

> I am convinced that there are more people who would begin to benefit from unprescribed private self-medication with MDMA than who would begin to suffer suffer harm.

conviction |kənˈvɪkʃ(ə)n| 2 a firmly held belief or opinion

belief |bɪˈliːf| an acceptance that something exists or is true, especially one without proof

opinion |əˈpɪnjən| 1 a view or judgement formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge

Re: Suicidal Vet Calls MDMA Treatment ‘a Miracle'

#69

Post by ClassyJacket »

wp381640 wrote: post #13
ClassyJacket wrote: post #3

I have no doubts, and I'm so thankful of the research that MAPS is doing. I haven't even been thru any trauma and MDMA pulled me out of depression and greatly reduced my anxiety. It was an absolute miracle for me. It disgusts me that the stuff is illegal while cigarettes and alcohol are not. AMA.

I went through a similar experience. About 10 years ago I was in a bit of a funk and depressed, anxious etc. and further I think I was in denial about the problem. I was almost completely unproductive for about 6 months. Went out one weekend and had a mid-range dose of MDMA and with the afterglow in the days later I felt like a new person, complete with a spring in my step. It felt like I had been hoarding a lot of u…

"It felt like I had been hoarding a lot of useless stuff in my mind and never being comfortable in my head, while MDMA was the clear-out I needed."

I know exactly what you mean. You hit the nail on your head. It's like "Oh, why do I spend so much time worrying about little things". It just grabs the shit and dumps it out. It's the greatest perspective on life and love and the best way to reorder your priorities.

Re: Suicidal Vet Calls MDMA Treatment ‘a Miracle'

#70

Post by microcolonel »

phnk wrote: post #68
microcolonel wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, there really is no moral excuse for any restriction (or even tax) on the purchase of chemicals which are broadly safe for consumption, completely generic, and of considerable medicinal value. I am convinced that there are more people who would begin to benefit from unprescribed private self-medication with MDMA than who would begin to suffer suffer harm.

> I am convinced that there are more people who would begin to benefit from unprescribed private self-medication with MDMA than who would begin to suffer suffer harm. conviction |kənˈvɪkʃ(ə)n| 2 a firmly held belief or opinion belief |bɪˈliːf| an acceptance that something exists or is true, especially one without proof opinion |əˈpɪnjən| 1 a view or judgement formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or k…

Given that I did not use the word "conviction", what exactly are you getting at here.
Post reply on HN