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Bleak New Estimates in Drug Epidemic: A Record 72,000 Overdose Deaths in 2017

nytimes.com

161–170 of 217 posts

Re: Bleak New Estimates in Drug Epidemic: A Record 72,000 Overdose Deaths in 2017

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Overdosed actually overtook vehicle deaths before most public health officials realized that something horribly wrong was going on. That we still haven’t done much about it is deeply distressing, tbh. I feel it’s a sign that we’re losing the ability to act towards unified goals, even politically safe ones like “no more drug overdoses please”.

Stopping drug overdoses is far from a politically safe goal though, because you need to stop the war on drugs and take a less draconian approach, which goes directly against the hard-line stance of the Republican party.

Eh, I think you might be injecting too much partisanship into my original point.

Stopping drug overdoses is popular across the board, but some of the tactics to accomplish that are not. We aren’t even at step zero, pretending to give a shit at the national level.

You also need to factor in the victims, or rather their demographics. To be brutally honest, past victims of heroin were often minorities who lived in inner cities. Blacks in urban ghettos and gays cut off from all social support in particular, plus homeless people of all stripes. It was easy for people to pretend that those victims were simply immoral fools who got their just desserts.

Now the victims are increasingly the children of white, suburban, middle class families. This has brought the crisis much closer to the heart of American political power, and made it much easier for the average voter to know someone who is addicted to or died from opiates.

In theory this should reduce the drive for draconian drug war tactics, since the victims are neighbors and not brown boogeymen over in the big bad city. This doesn’t seem to be happening at the political level, which is weird and disconcerting.

Re: Bleak New Estimates in Drug Epidemic: A Record 72,000 Overdose Deaths in 2017

#162

The sad truth is, the U.S. is a country that emphasizes punishment over rehabilitation, and we've brought this upon ourselves by isolating people and banning access to substances that they've become dependent on. The solution here is not complex: give addicts safe access to the substances they're addicted to and resources for improving their situation. It's disheartening, to say the least, that one of the main strate…

I've had discussions with coworkers and friends about this issue and similar issues where there is a lot of moral ambiguity but a lot less academic ambiguity - we basically know what works and doesn't work but what does work is not morally acceptable to about half the country. It is super frustrating to a lot of us because there doesn't seem to be a way to reach them, they can change their minds but only when they are personally affected by the issue but it doesn't seem to then spread much to their peers.

To paraphrase one conversation that reminded me a lot of the larger national conversation "I play by the rules, why shouldn't everyone else?". It didn't matter that punishment didn't help or in a lot of cases, was costing them more and having worse outcomes, the larger (and to me, more trivial) moral and emotional argument won out.

Re: Bleak New Estimates in Drug Epidemic: A Record 72,000 Overdose Deaths in 2017

#163

It seems like the term "overdoses" is obscuring the problem which is more "toxic (lethal) stuff is increasingly being mixed into illicit drugs of all kinds".

This point happens to be prominent in my mind, because I happened to see some material the other day intended for drug education in schools that talked about the dangers of marijuana, especially the "synthetic kind". Even though I am not particularly pro-pot, and I do see the real problem here, it made me very uncomfortable. The less misleading thing to say, in my opinion, would be simply "street drugs can have poison or unknown drugs in them, and can kill you".

Framing the problem is not just a matter of arbitrary mental games. Empirically, there is a real phenomenon, that people are dying more than they used to, and blaming doctors is the consequence of not reasoning properly about it. Unregulated drugs have always had the potential to have bad things in them, but if that is an increasing problem, we need to find out the root cause. Assuming doctors or drug companies have become greedier, assuming victims have become more susceptible to addiction, strike me as refusing to acknowledge what an explanation would even look like.

Re: Bleak New Estimates in Drug Epidemic: A Record 72,000 Overdose Deaths in 2017

#164

The sad truth is, the U.S. is a country that emphasizes punishment over rehabilitation, and we've brought this upon ourselves by isolating people and banning access to substances that they've become dependent on. The solution here is not complex: give addicts safe access to the substances they're addicted to and resources for improving their situation. It's disheartening, to say the least, that one of the main strate…

I've had discussions with coworkers and friends about this issue and similar issues where there is a lot of moral ambiguity but a lot less academic ambiguity - we basically know what works and doesn't work but what does work is not morally acceptable to about half the country. It is super frustrating to a lot of us because there doesn't seem to be a way to reach them, they can change their minds but only when they ar…

This sounds exactly right to me. In discussions with a religious friend of mine some years ago, I noticed that she had a tendency to conflate law and morality, when they really have nothing to do with each other. Further, she seemed to think that because it was illegal or bad to do something, it was reasonable to expect that people wouldn't do that thing as a result. I found (and find) this ridiculous - in large enough groups, you can use incentive/disincentive structures to push the population's behavior in a certain direction, but never with 100% effectiveness. Naturally, she disagreed.

Re: Bleak New Estimates in Drug Epidemic: A Record 72,000 Overdose Deaths in 2017

#165
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 72,000 overdose deaths is just a staggeringly large number. It's still only a drop in the bucket compared to overall drug-related deaths though. Tobacco-related deaths alone account for 500k deaths annually, and that's not even counting deaths related to third-hand smoke.

I figured that number was global, not US-only. Yes, that is a staggeringly high number.

Oh wow, that is the US-only number: https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/fast...

Re: Bleak New Estimates in Drug Epidemic: A Record 72,000 Overdose Deaths in 2017

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in the EU, the doctor didn't give me any strong opiod. They just pulled the tooth and sent me home. When the pain reached a score of 8 / 10 on my personal score card, I took one Tylenol and another 1/2 before bed that day and didn't take anything else the next day.

> When the pain reached a score of 8 / 10 on my personal score card, I took one Tylenol What's a 10/10 on your personal score card, out of interest? I hope you understand that your 8/10 may be akin to a 2/10 for someone else.

It might also have been a 7/10. When I had surgery on my back, right above my buttocks, they dug a hole deep right onto my bone and then it had to heal on its own, took 4 months to close. The first two days were a solid 9.5/10.

Re: Bleak New Estimates in Drug Epidemic: A Record 72,000 Overdose Deaths in 2017

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stopping drug overdoses is far from a politically safe goal though, because you need to stop the war on drugs and take a less draconian approach, which goes directly against the hard-line stance of the Republican party.

Eh, I think you might be injecting too much partisanship into my original point. Stopping drug overdoses is popular across the board, but some of the tactics to accomplish that are not. We aren’t even at step zero, pretending to give a shit at the national level. You also need to factor in the victims, or rather their demographics. To be brutally honest, past victims of heroin were often minorities who lived in inner…

> Stopping drug overdoses is popular across the board, but some of the tactics to accomplish that are not. We aren’t even at step zero, pretending to give a shit at the national level.

We are at step zero, which is we have the capability of measuring the problem.

Lets be frank: there is plenty of people who care, and those people are providing those measurements (CDC analyzing death certificates, especially for Opioid deaths). Whether or not our leaders respond is simply a matter of democracy. We need to elect leaders who care and will do something about it.

But for now, step 0 is done. The public is becoming aware of the problem, and as far as I can tell, everyone is on the same page with regards to facts. Not even Trump dares to call these statistics "Fake News".

Over the next 10 years, I bet this problem will be solved. There really aren't any political headwinds that I foresee. There aren't any political opponents on this issue.

Re: Bleak New Estimates in Drug Epidemic: A Record 72,000 Overdose Deaths in 2017

#168
post #42
post #24

The war on drugs is a staggering failure. Drugs have infiltrated every level of society, from business leaders and politicians to white and blue collar workers, to the bums on the street. Drugs are causing tens of thousands of deaths a year in the US alone. I dread to think the global total. The casualties of this war are mounting up rapidly. This is before we even count the criminals and enforcers killed in open com…

It is very hypocritical for some politician to tell me what I can and what I can`t put into my body. Recently in UK they enacted a law that criminalize any substance that changes how you feel, but with the following remark "The ban is so wide-ranging that a long list of substances such as alcohol, tobacco, caffeine, food and medical products will have to be given special exemptions." When you thought that you reached…

> It is very hypocritical for some politician to tell me what I can and what I can`t put into my body.

I don't quite get the hypocrisy angle. He's not making rules that apply to everybody but him.

I would guess legislation around what you can and can't put into your body is around the amount of harm and suffering caused ty you(& by you) after ingesting these substances.

Different people have varying vulnerability(changing throughout their lives) and more likely to seek escapism at certain points in their lives. Legislating against subtances stop them from being widely sold & readily available.

Seems pretty common sense to me.

(with allowances for existing(read normalised) special cases, namely: alcohol & tobacco) I can see tobacco being phased out completely in the next century.

Re: Bleak New Estimates in Drug Epidemic: A Record 72,000 Overdose Deaths in 2017

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the NHS, that isn't possible. You either take the doctor's treatment, or you get no treatment at all. You can go around, asking different doctors, or having a discussion with your doctor, but you will not be prescribed something you don't need. The incentive being, that with a tax payer funded system, money should go to those who actually need it. It is understood here I guess that the doctor is the expert, not yo…

I can totally appreciate this. As an American though, I have gone around my doctor and ordered prescription medications online when they would not prescribe them (ivermectin, anti-parisital, non-controlled substances, almost zero risk to myself if my diagnosis was inaccurate).

Could you email me (in profile) which sites you've used? Would love to pick up non controlled stuff online but the sites are all shady.

Re: Bleak New Estimates in Drug Epidemic: A Record 72,000 Overdose Deaths in 2017

#170
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is very hypocritical for some politician to tell me what I can and what I can`t put into my body. Recently in UK they enacted a law that criminalize any substance that changes how you feel, but with the following remark "The ban is so wide-ranging that a long list of substances such as alcohol, tobacco, caffeine, food and medical products will have to be given special exemptions." When you thought that you reached…

This is the bourgeois line on drugs, believed exclusively by people who haven't spent much time around crack and heroin addicts [0], prolonged exposure to whom eliminates the comfortable fiction that what people put into their body is their own business . [0] Or severe alcoholics, for that matter.

I'm not sure if you're being downvoted for your viewpoint or your usage of "This is the bourgeois line on drugs".
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