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Bleak New Estimates in Drug Epidemic: A Record 72,000 Overdose Deaths in 2017

nytimes.com

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Re: Bleak New Estimates in Drug Epidemic: A Record 72,000 Overdose Deaths in 2017

#111

Post by stef25 »

umvi wrote: post #107
stef25 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The doctors. Anyone who spends the better part of a decade studying medicine can't be ignorant about opioids and addiction, regardless of what the slimy Purdue representative tells them. The only excuse they have for the blatant over prescribing of opioids (2 months worth of oxy for getting wisdom teeth pulled kind of thing) is that if they don't do it, the patient will just go to another doctor. But how can you just…

> What the patient seeks is irrelevant. The only one who decides what prescriptions a patient should take is a doctor. That kind of rubs me the wrong way, but I'm not sure why. I like having the option of overriding the doctor if I disagree.

It would be fair to make choices in the sense of picking a longer treatment that doesn't force you to stay home from work, vs a shorter treatment that would. And of course "another round of chemo" or "I can't be f*cked anymore" are valid choices.

But really, when things like opiates are involved patient input is rarely useful.

Re: Bleak New Estimates in Drug Epidemic: A Record 72,000 Overdose Deaths in 2017

#112

Post by roenxi »

umvi wrote: post #107
stef25 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The doctors. Anyone who spends the better part of a decade studying medicine can't be ignorant about opioids and addiction, regardless of what the slimy Purdue representative tells them. The only excuse they have for the blatant over prescribing of opioids (2 months worth of oxy for getting wisdom teeth pulled kind of thing) is that if they don't do it, the patient will just go to another doctor. But how can you just…

> What the patient seeks is irrelevant. The only one who decides what prescriptions a patient should take is a doctor. That kind of rubs me the wrong way, but I'm not sure why. I like having the option of overriding the doctor if I disagree.

Maybe one of the following? These are a couple of takes of that attitude from a few slightly different viewpoints.

* Removal of agency from the patient in relation to how their body is treated; anti-individualism.

* Decision making power assigned to an agent who does not have skin in the game; anti-system-thinking.

* Attitude runs counter to having a strong sense of personal responsibility; anti-some-morality-systems.

* Imposition of doctors value system overrides patient values; not-sure.

Re: Bleak New Estimates in Drug Epidemic: A Record 72,000 Overdose Deaths in 2017

#113

Post by dominotw »

stef25 wrote: post #55
announcerman wrote: post #7

The amount of responsibility laundering that's happening is staggering. Is it the fault of the doctors for prescribing strong painkillers or the responsibility of lobbyists for keeping the status quo as it is. Or is it the responsibility of patients to not seek strong opiates for the smallest aches? On whom falls the blame for this?

The doctors. Anyone who spends the better part of a decade studying medicine can't be ignorant about opioids and addiction, regardless of what the slimy Purdue representative tells them. The only excuse they have for the blatant over prescribing of opioids (2 months worth of oxy for getting wisdom teeth pulled kind of thing) is that if they don't do it, the patient will just go to another doctor. But how can you just…

> 2 months worth of oxy for getting wisdom teeth pulled kind of thing

I saved mine after wisdom tooth/root canal combo and used them as mood enhancer later.

I am not sure I am addicted to them though. I find this theory hard to believe that opioid overdose is an end result of series of missteps starting from wisdom tooth oxy prescription.

Re: Bleak New Estimates in Drug Epidemic: A Record 72,000 Overdose Deaths in 2017

#115

Post by dionidium »

ssijak wrote: post #42
Nursie wrote: post #24

The war on drugs is a staggering failure. Drugs have infiltrated every level of society, from business leaders and politicians to white and blue collar workers, to the bums on the street. Drugs are causing tens of thousands of deaths a year in the US alone. I dread to think the global total. The casualties of this war are mounting up rapidly. This is before we even count the criminals and enforcers killed in open com…

It is very hypocritical for some politician to tell me what I can and what I can`t put into my body. Recently in UK they enacted a law that criminalize any substance that changes how you feel, but with the following remark "The ban is so wide-ranging that a long list of substances such as alcohol, tobacco, caffeine, food and medical products will have to be given special exemptions." When you thought that you reached…

This is the bourgeois line on drugs, believed exclusively by people who haven't spent much time around crack and heroin addicts [0], prolonged exposure to whom eliminates the comfortable fiction that what people put into their body is their own business.

[0] Or severe alcoholics, for that matter.

Re: Bleak New Estimates in Drug Epidemic: A Record 72,000 Overdose Deaths in 2017

#117

Post by amaccuish »

umvi wrote: post #107
stef25 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The doctors. Anyone who spends the better part of a decade studying medicine can't be ignorant about opioids and addiction, regardless of what the slimy Purdue representative tells them. The only excuse they have for the blatant over prescribing of opioids (2 months worth of oxy for getting wisdom teeth pulled kind of thing) is that if they don't do it, the patient will just go to another doctor. But how can you just…

> What the patient seeks is irrelevant. The only one who decides what prescriptions a patient should take is a doctor. That kind of rubs me the wrong way, but I'm not sure why. I like having the option of overriding the doctor if I disagree.

In the NHS, that isn't possible. You either take the doctor's treatment, or you get no treatment at all. You can go around, asking different doctors, or having a discussion with your doctor, but you will not be prescribed something you don't need. The incentive being, that with a tax payer funded system, money should go to those who actually need it. It is understood here I guess that the doctor is the expert, not you.

Re: Bleak New Estimates in Drug Epidemic: A Record 72,000 Overdose Deaths in 2017

#118

Post by qudat »

announcerman wrote: post #7

The amount of responsibility laundering that's happening is staggering. Is it the fault of the doctors for prescribing strong painkillers or the responsibility of lobbyists for keeping the status quo as it is. Or is it the responsibility of patients to not seek strong opiates for the smallest aches? On whom falls the blame for this?

None of these. Why should we look to blame someone? At the core of this issue as well as many in the US, we are in the midst of a mental health epidemic. The medical system in this country does not care about preventative care, the primary directive is triage.

Why are people using drugs at staggering quantities? Whether it is "recreational" or seemingly necessary, mind-altering substances are being used for a reason and I don't think this country has a good answer to why. We certainly do not have a good way to solve this problem.

Re: Bleak New Estimates in Drug Epidemic: A Record 72,000 Overdose Deaths in 2017

#120

Post by nioesd »

dominotw wrote: post #113
stef25 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The doctors. Anyone who spends the better part of a decade studying medicine can't be ignorant about opioids and addiction, regardless of what the slimy Purdue representative tells them. The only excuse they have for the blatant over prescribing of opioids (2 months worth of oxy for getting wisdom teeth pulled kind of thing) is that if they don't do it, the patient will just go to another doctor. But how can you just…

> 2 months worth of oxy for getting wisdom teeth pulled kind of thing I saved mine after wisdom tooth/root canal combo and used them as mood enhancer later. I am not sure I am addicted to them though. I find this theory hard to believe that opioid overdose is an end result of series of missteps starting from wisdom tooth oxy prescription.

Keep in mind that some people are at much higher risk for becoming addicted to opiates. You may have been able to take them recreationally without major issue, but the same behavior could have a much more severe consequence for someone in that at-risk group.
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