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Changes in midlife death rates across racial and ethnic groups in the US

bmj.com

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Re: Changes in midlife death rates across racial and ethnic groups in the US

#31

Post by prepend »

WhompingWindows wrote: post #11
vxxzy wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could it be, at the onset? The decision to take drugs? Where one is suffering from depression or some form of chemical imbalance? Or, could one be prone to risk taking behavior? Is the precursor to risk taking behavior, biochemical?

I don't know if it's a true "decision" to take drugs for many people. If they have crippling pain due to an injury, they may be prescribed pain medication and then find they can't get off. See my other comment for a scenario.

It’s complex because there are different reasons for addiction.

Prescription rates are very high to support your example [0]

Recreational use is a bit harder, for me at least, to gauge. I found the 2017 global drug survey [1] showing about 2% opium/heroine use among respondents.

[0] https://www.cdc.gov/drugoverdose/maps/rxrate-maps.html

[1] https://www.globaldrugsurvey.com/wp-content/themes/globaldru... (I wasn’t very familiar with this source, but I saw 10+ citations including some respectable journals like BMJ, https://www.globaldrugsurvey.com/about-us/methods-and-limita...

Re: Changes in midlife death rates across racial and ethnic groups in the US

#32

Post by mikert5671 »

skh wrote: post #12
sigfubar wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Addiction progresses like a disease, but begins as a moral failing. If I were to begin using heroin today, it would be by conscious choice, not because there's something wrong with my body.

It certainly feels to each person that they are in control of their decisions. However, there is strong, convincing evidence that people are easily influenced and often times can be led to make bad decisions. This is true for all of us. I’ve never had an inclination towards drugs but I know this has much less to do with my morality or lack of personal failings and much more to do with luck. It’s ok to view addicts wi…

Were all in control of our own lives, we live according to ourselves. The buck stops with me on how I live my life

Re: Changes in midlife death rates across racial and ethnic groups in the US

#33

Post by bilbo0s »

ronnier wrote: post #29
bilbo0s wrote: post #23

Sounds like Americans have had a marked decrease in mental and physical health over the time period analyzed. (1999-2016). I think maybe easier access to healthcare, mental and physical, could help? Also a lot of this might be signs of an overworked populace? (How many jobs are people working to make ends meet? Do the ends meet after all the jobs are worked? etc). So we should probably look at that as well. But I thi…

I wish it called out the difference between males and females. Is the trend mostly with males?

Actually, it specifically said that the overdose trend is more pronounced in females.

But what's not said seems to also be relevant to the issue you raise. For instance, for suicides, I'd wager the trend is more pronounced for males. (Though they didn't call that out. So that may or may not be the case).

But whether those in poor mental health are committing suicide, or seeking escape in opioids and other drugs, the final result was clearly the same. Doesn't really matter if you're male or female.

Re: Changes in midlife death rates across racial and ethnic groups in the US

#34

Post by ams6110 »

vanderZwan wrote: post #20
sturgill wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Addiction is a disease. And I also think it can be a moral failing to play around with addictive substances. I say this as one who has a long family history of addiction and who has struggled with his own addictions: I was wrong to get involved with certain things. When I reached out to my parents my (normally quiet and ultra-supportive) mom’s first words were, “I thought you were smarter than that.” And her next sen…

Your description is very different from treating it as something to punish people for, which is what usually is meant with "moral failing" in this context.

There is a reason humans evolved morality to regulate bad behavior. Morality helps you resist your base desires and do what is better for yourself and the group in the long term.

Do people become addicts because of moral failing? In some (many?) cases, yes. Not all, and not undeserving of treatment/help to recover in any case.

Re: Changes in midlife death rates across racial and ethnic groups in the US

#35

Post by rjkennedy98 »

WhompingWindows wrote: post #3

"Drug overdoses were the leading cause of increased mortality in midlife in each population, but mortality also increased for alcohol related conditions, suicides, and organ diseases involving multiple body systems." Perhaps we can start treating addiction like a disease and not a moral failing?

This is the kind of snide remark that drives me crazy.

Treating addiction as a disease will not fix anything except put more money in the drug companies pockets (which is why they push this narrative). Treating diseases is amazingly more ineffective than preventing the disease.

Preventing addiction is not something we like to talk about. Our drug companies and government have been amazingly complicity in pushing pain standards that have killed hundreds of thousands. Similarly we have so called "treatments" for depression, ADHD, and other newly-popular diseases that may in fact be making things worse long term, but the government has done nothing to make sure that long term outcomes are better but has been run by Big Pharma for a long time.

Re: Changes in midlife death rates across racial and ethnic groups in the US

#36

Post by CptFribble »

WhompingWindows wrote: post #3

"Drug overdoses were the leading cause of increased mortality in midlife in each population, but mortality also increased for alcohol related conditions, suicides, and organ diseases involving multiple body systems." Perhaps we can start treating addiction like a disease and not a moral failing?

I don't think addiction is a disease or a moral failing, it's more a product of the environment of the addict.

Case in point: up to 20% of soldiers in Vietnam were addicted to heroin during the war, and up to 40% had tried it, but when they came home only about 5% remained addicted. See: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1521-0391....

There are many factors in a person's life that lead to addiction, and while I'm not an expert, I think there needs to be a formalized system of getting people out of the environments in which they became addicted as part of the treatment.

Re: Changes in midlife death rates across racial and ethnic groups in the US

#37

Post by circlefavshape »

sturgill wrote: post #13
WhompingWindows wrote: post #3

"Drug overdoses were the leading cause of increased mortality in midlife in each population, but mortality also increased for alcohol related conditions, suicides, and organ diseases involving multiple body systems." Perhaps we can start treating addiction like a disease and not a moral failing?

Addiction is a disease. And I also think it can be a moral failing to play around with addictive substances. I say this as one who has a long family history of addiction and who has struggled with his own addictions: I was wrong to get involved with certain things. When I reached out to my parents my (normally quiet and ultra-supportive) mom’s first words were, “I thought you were smarter than that.” And her next sen…

> I was wrong to get involved with certain things

IMO you're judging yourself harshly. For most people who use drugs and/or alcohol a hangover is the worst consequence. If you're around other people using them and they're having fun I expect it's very hard to stay conscious of the fact that the risks are elevated for you, given your family history

Re: Changes in midlife death rates across racial and ethnic groups in the US

#38

Post by toomuchtodo »

bilbo0s wrote: post #33
ronnier wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish it called out the difference between males and females. Is the trend mostly with males?

Actually, it specifically said that the overdose trend is more pronounced in females . But what's not said seems to also be relevant to the issue you raise. For instance, for suicides, I'd wager the trend is more pronounced for males. (Though they didn't call that out. So that may or may not be the case). But whether those in poor mental health are committing suicide, or seeking escape in opioids and other drugs, the…

Women are more likely to attempt suicides, men are more successful in their attempts.

https://afsp.org/about-suicide/suicide-statistics/

Re: Changes in midlife death rates across racial and ethnic groups in the US

#39

Post by darpa_escapee »

sigfubar wrote: post #6
WhompingWindows wrote: post #3

"Drug overdoses were the leading cause of increased mortality in midlife in each population, but mortality also increased for alcohol related conditions, suicides, and organ diseases involving multiple body systems." Perhaps we can start treating addiction like a disease and not a moral failing?

Addiction progresses like a disease, but begins as a moral failing. If I were to begin using heroin today, it would be by conscious choice, not because there's something wrong with my body.

Many diseases are the results of choices, often the culmination of thousands of little, to use your words, "moral failings". Cancer, heart disease, diabetes and even suicide attempts fall under that umbrella.

I don't see the need to make a distinction here, unless your intention was to imply something that was unsaid?

Re: Changes in midlife death rates across racial and ethnic groups in the US

#40

Post by maxerickson »

ams6110 wrote: post #34
vanderZwan wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your description is very different from treating it as something to punish people for, which is what usually is meant with "moral failing" in this context.

There is a reason humans evolved morality to regulate bad behavior. Morality helps you resist your base desires and do what is better for yourself and the group in the long term. Do people become addicts because of moral failing? In some (many?) cases, yes. Not all, and not undeserving of treatment/help to recover in any case.

Fascinating how often it gets subverted by a portion of the group though.
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