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Changes in midlife death rates across racial and ethnic groups in the US

bmj.com

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Re: Changes in midlife death rates across racial and ethnic groups in the US

#11

Post by WhompingWindows »

vxxzy wrote: post #8
sigfubar wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Addiction progresses like a disease, but begins as a moral failing. If I were to begin using heroin today, it would be by conscious choice, not because there's something wrong with my body.

Could it be, at the onset? The decision to take drugs? Where one is suffering from depression or some form of chemical imbalance? Or, could one be prone to risk taking behavior? Is the precursor to risk taking behavior, biochemical?

I don't know if it's a true "decision" to take drugs for many people. If they have crippling pain due to an injury, they may be prescribed pain medication and then find they can't get off. See my other comment for a scenario.

Re: Changes in midlife death rates across racial and ethnic groups in the US

#12

Post by skh »

sigfubar wrote: post #6
WhompingWindows wrote: post #3

"Drug overdoses were the leading cause of increased mortality in midlife in each population, but mortality also increased for alcohol related conditions, suicides, and organ diseases involving multiple body systems." Perhaps we can start treating addiction like a disease and not a moral failing?

Addiction progresses like a disease, but begins as a moral failing. If I were to begin using heroin today, it would be by conscious choice, not because there's something wrong with my body.

It certainly feels to each person that they are in control of their decisions. However, there is strong, convincing evidence that people are easily influenced and often times can be led to make bad decisions. This is true for all of us. I’ve never had an inclination towards drugs but I know this has much less to do with my morality or lack of personal failings and much more to do with luck.

It’s ok to view addicts with grace and be thankful that the forces that led them to addiction did not affect me thusly. My failings happen to occur in other areas of life.

Re: Changes in midlife death rates across racial and ethnic groups in the US

#13

Post by sturgill »

WhompingWindows wrote: post #3

"Drug overdoses were the leading cause of increased mortality in midlife in each population, but mortality also increased for alcohol related conditions, suicides, and organ diseases involving multiple body systems." Perhaps we can start treating addiction like a disease and not a moral failing?

Addiction is a disease. And I also think it can be a moral failing to play around with addictive substances. I say this as one who has a long family history of addiction and who has struggled with his own addictions: I was wrong to get involved with certain things.

When I reached out to my parents my (normally quiet and ultra-supportive) mom’s first words were, “I thought you were smarter than that.” And her next sentence was, “How can we help you?”

Once someone is trapped preaching ceases to be helpful. But preaching the morality of good decision making to avoid the pitfalls of vice can help prevent people from entering the funnel.

My view is unlikely to be popular on this board, but I think your point is a classic example of the either-or fallacy.

“Playing around with biohazards is bad. Oh, the bottle broke and you’re sick? Well... let’s get you to the hospital.”

“Drugs and alcohol have the potential to absolutely destroy your life and the lives of people you love. You’re an alcoholic? Let’s get you the help you need.”

Re: Changes in midlife death rates across racial and ethnic groups in the US

#15

Post by Alex3917 »

It’s gotten to the point where doctors are no longer strongly pushing meeting all the RDIs for eating healthy and exercising if you’d otherwise be working, since (absent other risk factors) how much earning power you have at 35 is a better predictor of your total life expectancy than whatever amount of permanent damage you’d do to your body before then.

Re: Changes in midlife death rates across racial and ethnic groups in the US

#16

Post by dominotw »

nautilus12 wrote: post #14

We are too stressed in the US. Our companies don't treat employees like people, treat them like automotas. No paternity leave, very very little maternity leave. 2 weeks vacation. We are working too hard and burning our selves out.

> we are working too hard and burning our selves out.

Are we? Every single medium-big sized company I've worked was overstaffed to the gills, you could fire about 40-60% of ppl and no one would notice.

If you work for any online ecommerce company you would notice that their main shopping time is during work hours.

Re: Changes in midlife death rates across racial and ethnic groups in the US

#17

Post by arendtio »

pmichalina wrote: post #5
WhompingWindows wrote: post #3

"Drug overdoses were the leading cause of increased mortality in midlife in each population, but mortality also increased for alcohol related conditions, suicides, and organ diseases involving multiple body systems." Perhaps we can start treating addiction like a disease and not a moral failing?

Why not both?

Because treating something like a moral failing is hardly helping anyone. Instead treating it like a disease means actually helping people in the situation they are.

Re: Changes in midlife death rates across racial and ethnic groups in the US

#18

Post by dominotw »

WhompingWindows wrote: post #3

"Drug overdoses were the leading cause of increased mortality in midlife in each population, but mortality also increased for alcohol related conditions, suicides, and organ diseases involving multiple body systems." Perhaps we can start treating addiction like a disease and not a moral failing?

> Perhaps we can start treating addiction like a disease and not a moral failing?

Curious. What advantages would that change of mindset bring?

Re: Changes in midlife death rates across racial and ethnic groups in the US

#19

Post by vxxzy »

chatmasta wrote: post #10
vxxzy wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could it be, at the onset? The decision to take drugs? Where one is suffering from depression or some form of chemical imbalance? Or, could one be prone to risk taking behavior? Is the precursor to risk taking behavior, biochemical?

So we are not responsible for any of our decisions? We’re just slaves to our neurobiology?

It's a mix of both. We do have the ability to overcome our neurobiology. It takes rigorous and conscious effort to retrain your neural network - hence why Cognitive Behavioral Therapy can be as effective as Antidepressants.

Re: Changes in midlife death rates across racial and ethnic groups in the US

#20

Post by vanderZwan »

sturgill wrote: post #13
WhompingWindows wrote: post #3

"Drug overdoses were the leading cause of increased mortality in midlife in each population, but mortality also increased for alcohol related conditions, suicides, and organ diseases involving multiple body systems." Perhaps we can start treating addiction like a disease and not a moral failing?

Addiction is a disease. And I also think it can be a moral failing to play around with addictive substances. I say this as one who has a long family history of addiction and who has struggled with his own addictions: I was wrong to get involved with certain things. When I reached out to my parents my (normally quiet and ultra-supportive) mom’s first words were, “I thought you were smarter than that.” And her next sen…

Your description is very different from treating it as something to punish people for, which is what usually is meant with "moral failing" in this context.
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