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Google Needs to Come Clean About Its Chinese Plans

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Re: Google Needs to Come Clean About Its Chinese Plans

#51

Post by throw2016 »

This disproportionate focus on China is being used as a distraction from the all encompassing surveillance currently run by the NSA, GCHQ and Google, Facebook and others which is a far bigger and ongoing threat to democracy and citizens here. China's actions are limited to China.

There is hardly any activism against the invasive surveillance of SV companies or protests against the NSA. This forum itself has its fair share of apologists for surveillance capitalism. Where are the protests in front of Google and Facebooks campuses and in Washington?

So if people don't care about these issues at home how can they care about them in China? This is simply not credible or serious.

China's actions don't impact you, your governments and companies here do. In the absence of any mainstream activism, just singling out China for outrage and anger is duplicitous and comes across as motivated more by politics than any genuine concern for the issues.

Re: Google Needs to Come Clean About Its Chinese Plans

#52

Post by baybal2 »

est wrote: post #2

Fact 1: Google only pulled search business out of China. adsense/adwords/maps works fine in China Fact 2: Search engines are more and more irrelevant these days. All interesting new content are either from Weibo or Wechat (or other closed garden) Fact 3: all reports about "Google returning to China" are based solely on the "Intercept report"[1] as source. I suggest everyone take a look at it. I think there's a huge m…

>Fact 1: Google only pulled search business out of China. adsense/adwords/maps works fine in China

Adsense in China is franchised to a Chinese company.

Re: Google Needs to Come Clean About Its Chinese Plans

#53

Post by Buge »

bobjordan wrote: post #28

I'm an American, own and operate two Chinese companies (an operations/engineering consulting company and a factory). I was here when Google left. From the end user's viewpoint, internet censorship has only become more strict. While VPN access has never been totally unavailable, it can be painful to use. I've changed my browsing habits to settle for using Bing more than I otherwise would have. At the same time, I'm th…

>Google has the responsibility to their shareholders to enter new markets

I don't think so. I think Google has the responsibility to make money. It could hypothetically be the case that entering a new market would cause a loss of money, and thus Google shouldn't enter it. Potential reasons it might cause a loss of money include employees quitting and bad publicity. Uber entered China and lost money, and eventually had to leave.

Re: Google Needs to Come Clean About Its Chinese Plans

#54

Post by est »

knuththetruth wrote: post #49
est wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well, it's good to know the same two people are verified again and again. I do really appreciate those links. Are there any further development besides the initial "Intercept report" details? My best guess is that Google China somehow partnered with a major Android ROM developer in China to provide a search component in Android system, some kind of integration with "Custom Search API". It's nothing like the full sear…

It’s odd that you’re willing to so vehemently question sourced reporting, while simultaneously postulating, without any evidence, that a very narrow, favorable to Google scenario is likely to be the case.

Those newer sourced reporting adds the "media credibility", reduced the noise, but did not increase signal. Thus multiple sources equals one source to me. Source is not some kind of score that can be accumulated, if you believe source quantity than quality then you are fallen into the power user trap.

I like to analyze the structure & dynamic of a topic, not the number of "sources".

Re: Google Needs to Come Clean About Its Chinese Plans

#55

Post by throwappppp »

ardy42 wrote: post #30
bobjordan wrote: post #28

I'm an American, own and operate two Chinese companies (an operations/engineering consulting company and a factory). I was here when Google left. From the end user's viewpoint, internet censorship has only become more strict. While VPN access has never been totally unavailable, it can be painful to use. I've changed my browsing habits to settle for using Bing more than I otherwise would have. At the same time, I'm th…

> It will not affect Google's offerings outside of China. But while inside their walls, you got to follow their rules. No. Having operations in China gives the Chinese government leverage over you, which they're starting to use to pressure companies to toe their line even outside of the PRC. For examples, see the recent articles regarding airline's treatment of Taiwan on their websites [1]. See also how Mercedes-Benz…

That is not so different when US is threatened to sanction companies/countries that trying to import oil from certain country. Market itself is the leverage.

Re: Google Needs to Come Clean About Its Chinese Plans

#56

Post by est »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #31
est wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think you mean to qualify that with in China? I mean even if the "android app" came out how does it gain traction? Does anybody actually use an "app" to search on mobile phones?

If it was my only alternative to baidu, maybe.

A search engine as an app?

You type some phrases into an app, the app displays results in a webview, you click the SERP, then what? a browser opens?

Why don't you use the browser on your phone directly for searching?

That's why I think Google is working on some ROM feature, not an app. Or maybe there are some misudnerstanding from the "source"

If it's an app it's doomed to fail.

Re: Google Needs to Come Clean About Its Chinese Plans

#57

Post by est »

baybal2 wrote: post #52
est wrote: post #2

Fact 1: Google only pulled search business out of China. adsense/adwords/maps works fine in China Fact 2: Search engines are more and more irrelevant these days. All interesting new content are either from Weibo or Wechat (or other closed garden) Fact 3: all reports about "Google returning to China" are based solely on the "Intercept report"[1] as source. I suggest everyone take a look at it. I think there's a huge m…

>Fact 1: Google only pulled search business out of China. adsense/adwords/maps works fine in China Adsense in China is franchised to a Chinese company.

DFI is pretty hard to pull off in a country like China.

Re: Google Needs to Come Clean About Its Chinese Plans

#58

Post by est »

knuththetruth wrote: post #26
est wrote: post #2

Fact 1: Google only pulled search business out of China. adsense/adwords/maps works fine in China Fact 2: Search engines are more and more irrelevant these days. All interesting new content are either from Weibo or Wechat (or other closed garden) Fact 3: all reports about "Google returning to China" are based solely on the "Intercept report"[1] as source. I suggest everyone take a look at it. I think there's a huge m…

Fact 5: The Chinese Government, which Google will collaborate with to operate in China, has upwards of two million Uighurs and Muslim minorities in what the UN calls a “massive internment camp.” Uighurs are also reported to be being detained upon re-entry into the country, with some then “dying in custody” https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-rights-un/u-n-says-...

Fact 6: the phone or computer you are using are manufactured in China with child slave labor.

https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-child-labor-2012-1

https://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-microsoft-and-lenovo-fai...

I can guarantee you that labeling China with these can go on forever, but how does your fact help with the quesiton we are discussing?

btw Yes I do think Google made the wrong move to cooperate with China. But also I don't think a search app is the plan here. Maybe there are some misunderstanding from the source.

Re: Google Needs to Come Clean About Its Chinese Plans

#59

Post by est »

robjan wrote: post #39
est wrote: post #2

Fact 1: Google only pulled search business out of China. adsense/adwords/maps works fine in China Fact 2: Search engines are more and more irrelevant these days. All interesting new content are either from Weibo or Wechat (or other closed garden) Fact 3: all reports about "Google returning to China" are based solely on the "Intercept report"[1] as source. I suggest everyone take a look at it. I think there's a huge m…

Maps does not work in China. Source: in China

this one does http://maps.google.cn/

Re: Google Needs to Come Clean About Its Chinese Plans

#60

Post by iamshs »

kodablah wrote: post #20

It is simply not possible to both cooperate with the Chinese (or, to a lesser extent, any other) government against its citizens and remain transparent. Part of this type of cooperation includes a requirement by the government for opacity. This is easier for less-principled and/or more closed companies. You can only not-cooperate transparently (and even then, only sometimes). The real problem is you can't have a we'l…

>There's a reason a CEO might make a public post disagreeing with the approach of one government yet will forever remain mum concerning another.

Can anybody help me find the video or podcast of a prominent VC from SF heading its Chinese operations goes silent when asked about Chinese censorship. I just can't recall the name or seem to find it in my bookmarks.

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