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Vaping 'can damage vital immune system cells'

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Vaping 'can damage vital immune system cells'

#51

Post by Obi_Juan_Kenobi »

gaius wrote: post #43
rincebrain wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this really strikes me as the difference between "breathing car exhaust without a catalytic converter is toxic" and "breathing car exhaust can still be toxic" - yeah, both are bad, but one of them is orders of magnitude worse.

yeah, both are bad So vaping should continue to be banned everywhere that smoking is banned. Most people do not consent to breathing other peoples second-hand drugs.

Did you read the article?

> The review concluded there was "overwhelming evidence" they were far safer than smoking and "of negligible risk to bystanders"

And isn't this just a strawman? Are people proposing indoor vaping laws?

Re: Vaping 'can damage vital immune system cells'

#52

Post by jotm »

HEHENE wrote: post #47
excalibur wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The strategy that worked for me: 1) Find a flavor of e-liquid that you like well enough to use regularly. 2) Start off at the nicotine concentration that most closely replicates your smoking habit (for me 18mg ~ 1.5 packs/day) 3) Continue vaping at each concentration for a minimum of 2-3 months to ensure you are fully acclimated to one level before proceeding to the next. 4) Slowly reduce the nicotine level over time…

I'm currently stuck on 3mg, and have been for over a year. I followed almost the exact same steps as you, but found as soon as I switched to 0mg I hated it and quit vaping all together.... then went back to smoking a month later. I like the chewing gum idea. I'm not necessarily an anxious person, but I always need to be doing something. E.g. if I don't have my vape in my hand, I'm chewing my nails. Really sucks.

Yep, any less than 6mg and I'll buy a pack of cigarettes within the week. If I could take off 2-3 months, I'd go cold turkey, but the withdrawal effects are insane for me (anxiety, insomnia, massive depression, heavily impaired thinking, I can't do anything, literally.) I reckon it would take 2-3 weeks at most, but haven't had the time to try it.

Re: Vaping 'can damage vital immune system cells'

#54

Post by jotm »

gaius wrote: post #43
rincebrain wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this really strikes me as the difference between "breathing car exhaust without a catalytic converter is toxic" and "breathing car exhaust can still be toxic" - yeah, both are bad, but one of them is orders of magnitude worse.

yeah, both are bad So vaping should continue to be banned everywhere that smoking is banned. Most people do not consent to breathing other peoples second-hand drugs.

Yeah, ban anxious, depressed, hungry, loud and sick people while at it. They affect other people's mental health and can infect them with weird stuff like rhinoviruses and influenza.

Shit, why stop there, why not round them up and put them in some temporary camps, there was an European guy who tried that and it worked pretty well.

Re: Vaping 'can damage vital immune system cells'

#55

Post by Obi_Juan_Kenobi »

compcoffee wrote: post #5
djohnston wrote: post #3

"They caution the results are only in laboratory conditions and advise further research is needed to better understand the long-term health impact - the changes recorded took place only over 48 hours."

Are we supposed to look negatively upon this study because they say "more research is needed"? Sounds like good science to me.

In the right context, it's good science. The issue with this, and most science reporting, is that the context is missing or otherwise difficult to understand.

This is quite preliminary work, using cell cultures instead of actual organisms. It's quite common for effects seen in cell cultures to be very different from what is observed in whole, living tissue. But it can still be very useful for research: it can identify key diagnostic metrics, suggest mechanisms, and otherwise guide future research.

One issue here is that we already look at general lung function quite well: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-14043-2

This study examines the general lung function of non smokers who began vaping, with metrics taken from the start of vaporizer usage. This is about as direct as you can get, though is still an observational study (i.e. they did not randomly assign people to start vaping, for obvious ethical and adherence issues).

The synthesis of these studies would be to include more analysis of lung immune function. The results already suggest that inflammation is not an issue as suggested by the cell culture.

Re: Vaping 'can damage vital immune system cells'

#56

Post by larntz »

marenkay wrote: post #50
dave7 wrote: post #13

Key point from the article: "Any smoker considering e-cigarettes should switch completely without delay."

Or: You could just survive 24 hours without smoking, after which physical challenge is over. From there on it is just a fight against your brain, and also being aware of the root issue that made you pickup smoking. - ex-smoker

Quitting smoking is one of the hardest things I've ever done. Just reading this thread has brought up some nostalgia.

I think ecigs and nicotine gum/lozenges should be encouraged if someone wants to quit. Many people have found them useful bridging the gap between smoking and cessation. Going even a few hours without anything is enough to cause some people give up. Having help might give them confidence to eventually follow through.

Trading addiction to cigarettes for addiction to vapes or gum is a step in the right direction, but I agree eventually you have to pay the piper.

Re: Vaping 'can damage vital immune system cells'

#57

Post by jotm »

lingzb wrote: post #2

I've been wondering about the safety of vaping. Glad to see it's not as bad as smoking (a low bar) but will still kill you.

I've been wondering about the safety of all these cars in a city with a million people.

Glad to see it's not as bad as (frequent) smoking, but will still kill you.

Re: Vaping 'can damage vital immune system cells'

#58

Post by gdaxthrowaway »

freeone3000 wrote: post #33
gdaxthrowaway wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [...] the federal government has not legalized cannabis and continues to enforce restrictive policies and regulations on research into the health harms or benefits of cannabis products that are available to consumers in a majority of states FFS, if I would want to invest into something that has barriers to conduct a research, I'd give zero fucks about the law. Zero. These governments drive me nuts.

This is not a position that can be taken by people who intend to publish research under their own names. It'd be akin to signing a confession.

Correct. This is exactly what I wouldn't care about. You first create it and then you let it evolve on its own. Like Bitcoin. Anonymously.

Re: Vaping 'can damage vital immune system cells'

#59

Post by alexisnorman »

CosmicSteve wrote: post #41

I think it could be safely assumed that vaporizing nicotine and propylene glycol would lead to some negative health implications. Still, great job by the researchers in building precident. That being said, I'm personally curious above the health implications of dry herb being vaporized at a controlled temperature, that prevents any combustion, and controls the release of carcinogenic materials like Benzene/ammonia.(p…

With marijuana cartridges, I have been wondering what kind of temperature something like a 1100mAh c-cell battery maxes out at; because they can get hot.

I use mmj for an autoimmune disease, so it feels pretty ironic to read vaping damages immune system cells; will have to go back to the Volcano.

Re: Vaping 'can damage vital immune system cells'

#60

Post by ASalazarMX »

jotm wrote: post #54
gaius wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah, both are bad So vaping should continue to be banned everywhere that smoking is banned. Most people do not consent to breathing other peoples second-hand drugs.

Yeah, ban anxious, depressed, hungry, loud and sick people while at it. They affect other people's mental health and can infect them with weird stuff like rhinoviruses and influenza. Shit, why stop there, why not round them up and put them in some temporary camps, there was an European guy who tried that and it worked pretty well.

Godwin's law in the wild. Nice.
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