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Women Don't Want To Run Startups Because They'd Rather Have Children

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Re: Women Don't Want To Run Startups Because They'd Rather Have Children

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

women get paid less, are taken less seriously, are subject to glass ceilings, harassment, discrimination, have a higher probability of being raped, etc etc, every single day. Conversely, men are less likely to attend college, are more likely to be unemployed, are more likely be injured in the course of employment, are more likely to be the victim of a violent crime, are more likely to be incarcerated, etc etc, every…

"Conversely, men are less likely to attend college, are more likely to be unemployed, are more likely be injured in the course of employment, are more likely to be the victim of a violent crime, are more likely to be incarcerated, etc etc, every single day." Yes. I never claimed otherwise. I was making an argument as to the cultural conditioning that might lead women to be, on average, more risk averse than men. This…

>we're talking about a field in which there are demonstrably fewer women participating than men and we're asking why

I'd like to ask why you imagine that in any field there would be equal numbers of men and women? Or indeed why there should be any reason beyond simple preference. More women like milk chocolate; more men like dark (pulled that one out my arse incidentally). Does it matter?

If you take a gender blind view then you only have to look at individuals and say - "were you discriminated against due to prejudice?" if not then no foul.

There's a natural skew I think: if both men and women equally wanted to start families then more women would normally be able to than men (artificial insemination, one-night stand, stop using birth control, decide contrary to the male to not have an abortion, whatever). This leaves more men doing startups whether they prefer that to starting a family or not.

No, I'm not saying this accounts for any discrepancy I'm just saying this seems to be a reasonable explanation as to why there might be an imbalance and that these sorts of possibilities lead me to think that should it be clear there is no discrimination then it is highly unlikely that equal numbers of any two sub-populations (male-female, blue eyes-brown eyes, ...) occupy a particular field.

Re: Women Don't Want To Run Startups Because They'd Rather Have Children

#82
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

indeed. conider this: - for the last several years women are lunching companies at twice the rate of men http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405274870468860457512... - only 8% of founders in startups that get VC funding are women -- http://www.blackweb20.com/2010/08/10/women-only-8-of-interne...

Women aren't launching tech/web/software companies at twice the rate of men, so that's irrelevant. Few other fields do VC the way tech/web/software does.

you're saying that the way tech/web/software does VC has a huge negative impact on women founders. why do you think that's irrelevant?

Re: Women Don't Want To Run Startups Because They'd Rather Have Children

#83
post #22

As I read this, I couldn't stop thinking about my sister: Age 25 - met her future husband Age 26 - got married Age 27 - Child #1 Age 27 - graduated law school Age 29 - Child #2 Age 33 - Child #3 Age 35 - Child #4 Age 39 - Child #5 Age 46 - Child #6 Now - runs a minor league baseball team (I don't really know how she does it. But, then again, no one does.)

You know, rats can have more offspring than your sister in just a month. I don't see what's admirable about fulfilling one's biological destiny. And who cares about law school or baseball teams? If she had gotten a PhD in Quantum Field Theory while raising 6 kids, then...

Re: Women Don't Want To Run Startups Because They'd Rather Have Children

#84
post #22

As I read this, I couldn't stop thinking about my sister: Age 25 - met her future husband Age 26 - got married Age 27 - Child #1 Age 27 - graduated law school Age 29 - Child #2 Age 33 - Child #3 Age 35 - Child #4 Age 39 - Child #5 Age 46 - Child #6 Now - runs a minor league baseball team (I don't really know how she does it. But, then again, no one does.)

You know, rats can have more offspring than your sister in just a month. I don't see what's admirable about fulfilling one's biological destiny. And who cares about law school or baseball teams? If she had gotten a PhD in Quantum Field Theory while raising 6 kids, then...

I think you've got it wrong. I think the point he was trying top make is the time management aspect (as parents know, kids are a huge time sink, god bless'em). I've got only one, and he's making it extremely hard to put extra time on anything. So, actually having N kids is nothing to boast about, doing so while being able to do anything meaningful is.

Re: Women Don't Want To Run Startups Because They'd Rather Have Children

#85
I'm a 29 year old start-up founder in Tokyo, I'm also carrying my first child.

I don't know all of the stats regarding women and start-ups and to be honest, I don't care. I have learned that in order to be successful in anything-- sacrifice, hard work, knowing your stuff and the right people goes a long way and opens up a lot of opportunities, especially for Americans or start-ups in the US. The amount of support I receive being pregnant and founding a start-up is unbelievable, and I'm and American in Japan.

Penelope is known for writing articles like these, which do more harm than good in my humble opinion.

If you want to start a company, male or female, recognize that it won't be easy, be prepared to work harder than anyone else and dismiss the naysayers.

Re: Women Don't Want To Run Startups Because They'd Rather Have Children

#86

"Men Don't Want To Run Startups Because They'd Rather Watch Football"

Watching football isn't a very good comparison with having children, let's try...

Men Don't Want To Have Children Because They'd Rather Run Startups

Re: Women Don't Want To Run Startups Because They'd Rather Have Children

#87
post #59
post #10

I think this post is skipping the crucial factor in all this. It's not about children--at least not directly. It's about risk. Several years ago I read an article that analyzed the work preferences of the genders. It demonstrably showed that: - Men are more likely to do riskier jobs; - Men are more likely to travel further to work (including internationally); - Women tend to choose that are closer to home. Basically…

you're describing the stereotype about risk aversion, not the reality. in actuality women have been starting up companies at twice the rate of men for the last several years http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405274870468860457512...

According to the article: "... their [Men's] aim is for their businesses to grow as big as possible. Women start businesses to be personally challenged and to integrate work and family..."

It seems that men build startups, but women build lifestyle businesses.

Re: Women Don't Want To Run Startups Because They'd Rather Have Children

#88
Running the company has been absolute hell. Not that I didn’t know it would be hell. It’s my third startup. Each has had its own hell before we were solidly funded, but this one was so bad that my electricity was turned off, and I really thought I was going to die from stress.

Male or female, babies or not... maybe she's just in the wrong line of work? I've been the first tech hire at 3 startups, and I'm kind of undecided as to how much I actually like programming, but they were all kind of fun. There were a few stressful moments, but I wouldn't describe any of the experience as "hell," nor did we ever get our electricity shut off.

I mean, if it's always hell and you're on the brink of disaster, why would you bother doing it again... 3 times?

Re: Women Don't Want To Run Startups Because They'd Rather Have Children

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Conversely, men are less likely to attend college, are more likely to be unemployed, are more likely be injured in the course of employment, are more likely to be the victim of a violent crime, are more likely to be incarcerated, etc etc, every single day." Yes. I never claimed otherwise. I was making an argument as to the cultural conditioning that might lead women to be, on average, more risk averse than men. This…

>we're talking about a field in which there are demonstrably fewer women participating than men and we're asking why I'd like to ask why you imagine that in any field there would be equal numbers of men and women? Or indeed why there should be any reason beyond simple preference. More women like milk chocolate; more men like dark (pulled that one out my arse incidentally). Does it matter? If you take a gender blind v…

"I'd like to ask why you imagine that in any field there would be equal numbers of men and women? Or indeed why there should be any reason beyond simple preference."

Listen: "Women are choosing not to as a matter of preference so there's nothing wrong" is a cop-out. I'll grant you that the reason for the lack of equality is "simple preference." Clearly, because if women "wanted" to do startups/tech, they would. There are no laws preventing them.

"More women like milk chocolate; more men like dark (pulled that one out my arse incidentally). Does it matter?"

Intrinsically? No, of course not. But if we start from the assumption that gender shouldn't matter, we would expect a distribution that cleaves pretty closely to the gender distribution in the population. The fact that that it's doesn't isn't necessarily bad per se, but it suggests that maybe something is going on that may be worth investigating a little further. To do otherwise is intellectually lazy.

It's totally possible that the discrepancy is completely innocent, or that there's some reasonable gender-based explanation that involves no negative cultural messages, discrimination, whatever, to explain the massive differences in the number of women and men who choose to go into tech. I suppose there's a first time for everything. I just haven't been convinced by any of the pat explanations so far. None of them have explained, for example, the relatively low number of women working for large, stable tech companies (some of the best employers in the world if you're looking for benefits and stability), nor why the relative percentage of women in tech has been dropping pretty consistently over the last 30 years (actually since the early days of computing, but whatever). The point of my original post was mostly that we should go farther than saying something simple like "Women are risk averse!" and ask, well, why? Because it's not totally out of the question that cultural forces are at work, and it might behoove us to at least think about them a little bit.

"There's a natural skew I think: if both men and women equally wanted to start families then more women would normally be able to than men (artificial insemination, one-night stand, stop using birth control, decide contrary to the male to not have an abortion, whatever). This leaves more men doing startups whether they prefer that to starting a family or not."

If it were that simple then tech/CS/startups should have a gender imbalance roughly equivalent to that of the rest of the working world.

In the past, simple, personality/preference/constitution-based explanations for gender discrepancies have proven false many times - women didn't have the constitutions to be doctors, women didn't have the temperament to be lawyers, etc etc - so I'm inclined to distrust this sort of explanation, at least initially. I'm not saying "Oh because it wasn't true that women just didn't want to do law and medicine it can't be true here.", or that we need 50-50 male/female representation or I'm burning my bra, or even that we should change anything or that anyone is suffering any overt injustice at the hands of anyone else. I'm just advocating for a little critical thought about our society/culture instead of just shrugging our shoulders and assuming that there's no problem.

Re: Women Don't Want To Run Startups Because They'd Rather Have Children

#90
post #22

As I read this, I couldn't stop thinking about my sister: Age 25 - met her future husband Age 26 - got married Age 27 - Child #1 Age 27 - graduated law school Age 29 - Child #2 Age 33 - Child #3 Age 35 - Child #4 Age 39 - Child #5 Age 46 - Child #6 Now - runs a minor league baseball team (I don't really know how she does it. But, then again, no one does.)

yes but your sister: rule or exception? exception
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