Women Don't Want To Run Startups Because They'd Rather Have Children • Hacker News Board

Re: Women Don't Want To Run Startups Because They'd Rather Have Children

#71

Post by cperciva » Sat, Oct 09, 2010, 9:04 PM UTC

mklg1266 wrote: post #65

cletus wrote: post #10

I think this post is skipping the crucial factor in all this. It's not about children--at least not directly. It's about risk. Several years ago I read an article that analyzed the work preferences of the genders. It demonstrably showed that: - Men are more likely to do riskier jobs; - Men are more likely to travel further to work (including internationally); - Women tend to choose that are closer to home. Basically…

"Nowadays there aren't any barriers preventing women from taking these paths (quite the opposite, actually). It's simply that less women choose these routes." Begging the question. As you point out, there are no laws or physical barriers preventing women in the US from doing just about anything, so their heavy relative underrepresentation means by definition they're choosing not to. The question is: why not? Choices…

women get paid less, are taken less seriously, are subject to glass ceilings, harassment, discrimination, have a higher probability of being raped, etc etc, every single day.

Conversely, men are less likely to attend college, are more likely to be unemployed, are more likely be injured in the course of employment, are more likely to be the victim of a violent crime, are more likely to be incarcerated, etc etc, every single day.

Just because there are no laws preventing women from doing something does not mean that the playing field is equal.

Just because there are inequities in one direction does not mean that there aren't also inequities in the opposite direction.

Re: Women Don't Want To Run Startups Because They'd Rather Have Children

#72

Post by ahoyhere » Sat, Oct 09, 2010, 9:13 PM UTC

lizzy wrote: post #54

ahoyhere wrote: post #30

I do wish women with a chip on their shoulders would stop getting all aggro about observations that are not prescriptions . You saying "that's not true" is just as globalizing as "this is true." There is just something about women and product businesses that's weird. I recently put on a conference about bootstrapping paying products only, and I looked for ages to find a single woman bootstrapper like myself. They can…

There are way more women running tech startups that have VC funding than there are with bootstrapping. Really? I'm not so sure. Perhaps it is just hard to hear about the women that are bootstrapping tech companies. Companies that are being bootstrapped typically are pre-traction, and have not received the buzz in the tech media that comes with raising a funding round.

There are lots of bootstrapped companies that are not "pre-traction," and, in fact, making hundreds of thousands of dollars (or millions). You'd be very surprised. The "startup" press (including HN) is a real echochamber, and this lack of awareness about bootstrapping is one of the side effects. Check out my speaker list at http://schnitzelconf.com.

That's why I asked everyone I knew - and asked them to ask everyone they knew. I have my feet planted very high on the hierarchy of "famous devs" in more than one circle, so my reach is greater than the average joe. In addition to browsing every women entrepreneur's directory I could find. Including http://startupprincess.com. No joy.

Nary a female product bootstrapper around. Except the lady who's part of the team at Mite.

Re: Women Don't Want To Run Startups Because They'd Rather Have Children

#73

Post by lars » Sat, Oct 09, 2010, 9:18 PM UTC

ewjordan wrote: post #33

InfinityX0 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, women are more risk averse... but why is that? Is it possible it cycles back to the same instinctual genealogical pulls to continue the bloodline?

An evolutionary argument could be made that it's because a man that does extremely risky things (like, say, sleeping with every woman that he is able to) can spread his genes far and wide as a reward for such behavior (he'll have a lot of children). Whereas a woman engaging in the same behaviors can only be have one child every nine months, and for most of human history, every pregnancy carried with it a high risk of…

I've been sitting here thinking about this for ~20 minutes now. I'm about 70% sure you're onto something useful. Seems like it could be a nice way to do the trade-off between population variation and selection pressure.

Re: Women Don't Want To Run Startups Because They'd Rather Have Children

#74

Post by ahoyhere » Sat, Oct 09, 2010, 9:18 PM UTC

jdp23 wrote: post #58

lizzy wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are way more women running tech startups that have VC funding than there are with bootstrapping. Really? I'm not so sure. Perhaps it is just hard to hear about the women that are bootstrapping tech companies. Companies that are being bootstrapped typically are pre-traction, and have not received the buzz in the tech media that comes with raising a funding round.

indeed. conider this: - for the last several years women are lunching companies at twice the rate of men http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405274870468860457512... - only 8% of founders in startups that get VC funding are women -- http://www.blackweb20.com/2010/08/10/women-only-8-of-interne...

Women aren't launching tech/web/software companies at twice the rate of men, so that's irrelevant. Few other fields do VC the way tech/web/software does.

Re: Women Don't Want To Run Startups Because They'd Rather Have Children

#75

Post by sliverstorm » Sat, Oct 09, 2010, 9:27 PM UTC

> My startup is me and a bunch of twenty-something guys. And if you’re a woman launching a startup, my advice is to stick with this crowd. They never stop working because it’s so exciting to them: the learning curve is high, they can move anywhere, they can live on nothing, and they can keep wacky hours.

Certainly, as a 20-something guy, that DOES sound pretty exciting, and I can't imagine any of my female friends going for it.

Re: Women Don't Want To Run Startups Because They'd Rather Have Children

#76

Post by marilyn » Sat, Oct 09, 2010, 9:29 PM UTC

ahoyhere wrote: post #72

lizzy wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are way more women running tech startups that have VC funding than there are with bootstrapping. Really? I'm not so sure. Perhaps it is just hard to hear about the women that are bootstrapping tech companies. Companies that are being bootstrapped typically are pre-traction, and have not received the buzz in the tech media that comes with raising a funding round.

There are lots of bootstrapped companies that are not "pre-traction," and, in fact, making hundreds of thousands of dollars (or millions). You'd be very surprised. The "startup" press (including HN) is a real echochamber, and this lack of awareness about bootstrapping is one of the side effects. Check out my speaker list at http://schnitzelconf.com . That's why I asked everyone I knew - and asked them to ask everyone…

I'm a pre-traction bootstrapping lady. Pleasure to meet you.

Re: Women Don't Want To Run Startups Because They'd Rather Have Children

#77

Post by mklg1266 » Sat, Oct 09, 2010, 9:38 PM UTC

cperciva wrote: post #71

mklg1266 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Nowadays there aren't any barriers preventing women from taking these paths (quite the opposite, actually). It's simply that less women choose these routes." Begging the question. As you point out, there are no laws or physical barriers preventing women in the US from doing just about anything, so their heavy relative underrepresentation means by definition they're choosing not to. The question is: why not? Choices…

women get paid less, are taken less seriously, are subject to glass ceilings, harassment, discrimination, have a higher probability of being raped, etc etc, every single day. Conversely, men are less likely to attend college, are more likely to be unemployed, are more likely be injured in the course of employment, are more likely to be the victim of a violent crime, are more likely to be incarcerated, etc etc, every…

"Conversely, men are less likely to attend college, are more likely to be unemployed, are more likely be injured in the course of employment, are more likely to be the victim of a violent crime, are more likely to be incarcerated, etc etc, every single day."

Yes. I never claimed otherwise. I was making an argument as to the cultural conditioning that might lead women to be, on average, more risk averse than men. This doesn't mean that bad things don't happen to men. The two statements, in fact, have nothing to do with one another.

"Just because there are inequities in one direction does not mean that there aren't also inequities in the opposite direction."

Yes. Again, I never claimed otherwise. Inequities are bad. That's my point. Inequities that disadvantage men are also bad and, had that been the subject of the conversation, I would have made that point too. However, we're not talking about inequities that apply to men, we're talking about a field in which there are demonstrably fewer women participating than men and we're asking why. I was arguing that first, we need to go beyond a conclusion that states "women are choosing not to do X, so it's not a problem", second, that women may be risk averse for cultural reasons that may be worth addressing, and finally, by extension, that it's insufficient to claim that so long as women are legally treated the same way as men the playing field is equal so we shouldn't worry about it.

In other words, I'm not sure what your point is.

Re: Women Don't Want To Run Startups Because They'd Rather Have Children

#78

Post by arithmetic » Sat, Oct 09, 2010, 9:41 PM UTC

I'd like to call bullshit on this one. Disclaimer: I'm probably one of those insane women who wants to do a startup.

1) I'm tired of articles like these which have little to no research backing up their claims on why there are so few women doing startups. Penelope isn't making a sweeping generalization in the article, but she might as well make a generalization here - the effect is quite the same.

2) I'm also tired of the set of women I refer to as "the angry feminists" who are easily insulted everytime someone (especially a male author/speaker) points out that there are so few women in tech or that women lack qualities X and Y to do a startup. To all the women of the afore-mentioned category, you're wasting your time. An ounce of action is better than a ton of theories.

3) And last, I honestly don't know why there are so few women in tech. I don't have theories. All I know is that there ARE few women in tech (and fewer doing startups). I don't think we are all risk-averse. Sure, some of us may not like taking chances, but I'm pretty sure it's not every one of us.

I've been involved in writing software all my adult life. I'd like to do a startup one day. It's a tough world out there if you're doing anything on your own, irrespective of your gender. So stop analyzing and start doing.

Re: Women Don't Want To Run Startups Because They'd Rather Have Children

#79

Post by joshcrews » Sat, Oct 09, 2010, 10:11 PM UTC

I think children themselves _are_ startups. They require a ton of effort and long hours getting started, have a growth phase, and then start to pay returns and become more self-sufficient.

In a sense, women are involved in startups when they choose to have kids.

Background info: In the past year, I've started my family (first baby) and worked on several startups as a Rails developer (FYI, I'm a man).

Re: Women Don't Want To Run Startups Because They'd Rather Have Children

#80

Post by MrFlibble » Sat, Oct 09, 2010, 10:24 PM UTC

One thing I find interesting is that with the ever increasing ability to telecommute and work from home, many very talented women are able to stay employed and have kids at the same time. Employment is there if you can think and work "outside the box".

Example: My father is an attorney who started hiring skilled female lawyers with young children to handle a few hours of legal calls a day from home (the business design was phone-based legal services). The structure meant these women could work reduced hours from their own homes while taking care of their kids. Best of all they earned some income while not letting their skills go to waste.

There are so many creative ways to find/create employment for those willing to think beyond traditional work structure parameters.