Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Security Question • Hacker News Board

Re: Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Security Question

#201

Post by DEADBEEFC0FFEE » Mon, Aug 13, 2018, 12:57 PM UTC

ethbro wrote: post #172

mschuster91 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It blows my mind that taxi drivers would defend this system and not flee to Uber/Lyft/etc. For those who defend the system, often enough the medallions are their life saving / insurance when they get old, and almost always financed by loans. The medallions going worthless at the same time invalidates their retirement plans and STILL leaves them on the hook for the loan.

This is something that's made me think a lot about the health care debate. Would it not be just that, if we're going to rewrite the economic rules in some areas, we give partial compensation towards those we just screwed over? Presumably we're changing the rules because of progress (e.g. Uber and Lyft showing on-demand rideshare has a market), which is good for everyone. But say the human lifespan is 85 years +/-. 25…

In Sydney, Australia, they slapped on a tax to uber, to compensate the taxis. I can't remember the details, possibly time bound.

Re: Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Security Question

#202

Post by salawat » Mon, Aug 13, 2018, 2:58 PM UTC

GhostVII wrote: post #190

alkonaut wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading the dialog I think it's fair to say that both a) the man was not quite well, and b) the only motivation he actually DID suggest was the stress of low wage. So there's that.

He seemed to throw the minimum wage thing in as an afterthought though, not sure that was actually a significant motivation for him.

Occam's razor says he most likely meant what he said.

If a program errors into a non-recoverable state, and I see something in the stack trace, odds are it had something to do with the issue.

He showed intent to send a message. The fact he was about to end his life just amplifies it. Of all the things one could have focused on, that stuck out? Hardly dismissable.

He knew where his life was going either way. Either because he would have ended it regardless, or because he knew that doing anything drastic enough to hurt the "people" who he saw as the source of his hardship would forfeit his ability to live any semblance of a normal life afterward.

Re: Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Security Question

#203

Post by darpa_escapee » Mon, Aug 13, 2018, 3:25 PM UTC

andremendes wrote: post #161

darpa_escapee wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Often these types of suicides aren't given publicity, though this one was too much of a spectacle to ignore. There was a man who shot himself on the steps of a government(?) building, which is a town over from where I'm originally from, because he was laid off. A friend showed me the note he left on Facebook before it got deleted. It was very clear that he had been struggling financially for years and the layoff was…

It may not be him but it's the same tragedy as Douglas Schifter's. Facebook note: https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1888367364... "A Driver’s Suicide Reveals the Dark Side of the Gig Economy" : https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/06/nyregion/livery-driver-ta...

I'm almost certain he worked for the county, but I'd have to do some digging.

Re: Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Security Question

#204

Post by toss1 » Mon, Aug 13, 2018, 5:32 PM UTC

ghshephard wrote: post #75

aaronmck wrote: post #62

The article title seems like an overreaction to a really sad situation. We have to trust at least someone, and although he clearly had some issues (maybe recent), he wasn't out to hurt anyone or aligned with any groups that wanted to inflict harm. Fighter jets were there immediately, people tried to talk him down, and he was lost. Nothing better could have been done all around. Yes, commercial planes could be keycode…

The articles I've read said indicate that a "Taxi Capable" employee would be empowered to start up the aircraft, so it's not even clear whether security precautions would be relevant here.

Seems that it should be a two-level interlock, as is found on some high-end sportscars. The regular key allows for regular driving, but the Valet Key limits it to just over walking speed -- obviously sufficient to park & retrieve, but no good for joyriding.

I'm quite surprised that this was overlooked in post-9/11 security reviews.

Re: Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Security Question

#205

Post by salawat » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 1:39 AM UTC

sitkack wrote: post #195

projectileboy wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn’t necessarily say you’re wrong, but (at least in the US) we have a long history of taxpayer-subsidized bailouts for the very wealthy who take gambles and lose (e.g., 80s S&L crisis, but there are countless others). It’s an interesting and unfortunate cultural aspect of America that we really, really hate the poor, and seek to hold them accountable for their actions to a degree that we simply don’t do for the…

Because betterofchuck is not with us anymore, I have copied his comment, which I think is important for a myriad of reasons. Predominantly because _this is how america works_, we punish, we do not fix. ---- Poverty is the Lord's way of anointing the sinners for the righteous to cull. Ephesians 1:11 “In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things ac…

That is... A horrible reading of that passage. It completely cherry picked and pulled it out of context.

From the Today's English Version,

Paul's Letter to the Ephesians: Chapter 1, verses 1-11

From Paul, who by God's will is an apostle of Christ Jesus-- To God's people in Ephesus, who are faithfulin their life in union with Christ Jesus.

2-) May God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ give you grace and peace.

3-) Let us give thanks to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! For in our union with Christ he has blessed us by giving us every spiritual blessing in the heavenly world.

4-) Even before the world was made, God had chosen us to be his through our union with Christ, so that we would be holy and without fault before him, because of his love.

5-) God had already decided that through Jesus Christ he would make us his children--this was his pleasure and purpose.

6-) Let us praise God for his glorious grace, for the free gift he gave us in his dear Son!

7-) For by the blood of Christ we are set free, that is, our sins are forgiven. How great is the grace of God,

8-) which he gave to us in such large measure! In all his wisdom and insight

9-) God did what he had purposed, and made known to us the secret plan he had already decided to complete by means of Christ.

10-) This plan,which God will complete when the time is right, is to bring all creation together, everything in heaven and on earth, with Christ as head.

11-) All things are done according to God's plan and decision; and God chose us to be his own people in Union with Christ because of his own purpose based on what he had decided from the very beginning.

Nothing in there screams "poverty is an affliction God amounts on the sinner."

You might get a hint of it around verse 14, but that verse is contingent on the Spirit granting complete freedom to the faithful.

The entire section is a call to praise God.

I don't know who this betterofchuck is, but he seems to have a penchant for cherrypicking verse to fit his argument. His interpretation is outright sickening, and bordering on the blasphemous.

Also, America DOES tend to see destitution as a self-inflicted condition, but the main way in which disgust is usually elicited is by the perception of those destitute who refuse to find a way to better themselves. A central American value is to FIGHT for one's own liberty, not to grovel at the feet of others to have it delivered. This disgust can be elicited just as easily by the wealthy as well.

Show me someone who makes an honest effort at lifting themselves up, and I'll show you someone living up to the American ideal.

It isn't pretty, but in my life, THAT is how America has worked.

Re: Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Security Question

#206

Post by WillPostForFood » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 2:44 AM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #189

WillPostForFood wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

based off of postings on Reddit, Facebook, etc. there's a general attitude of being despondent due to the current economic and political climate. Something has to change Maybe spend less time on Reddit, Facebook, etc... Things probably aren't as bad as they look through the lens of social media.

The lens doesn’t change stagnant wages, health care and housing being out of reach, and income inequality. Things are terrible, and putting your head in the sand does nothing but exacerbate the situation.

Employment is low, home ownership is increasing, healthcare is too expensive but still more accessible than it ever has been. Things can be better, but I'd say, gently, that you lack perspective. You are mirroring a story that you see online on TV and social media that is created to make you think things are terrible so you'll watch more tv and spend more time on social media. Stagnant wages aren't terrible, 25% unemployment was terrible. Stagflation was terrible. You think housing is tough now, try a home loan at 16% interest rate like in 1981/2. You think things are politically divisive now? Look at the violence and political assassinations in the 1960's. Look at the crime rate which has been declining for a two decades.

Re: Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Security Question

#207

Post by hueving » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 9:55 PM UTC

peteretep wrote: post #135

hueving wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pointless attempt to tie a political view to a tragedy, please don't do this. There have been massacres, bombings, dramatic suicides, etc long before the Reagan administration and none of them have claimed "If I would have only had 20% more compensation I wouldn't have violently murdered these 20 people." P.S. It's godspeed, not "God speed".

Does it happen more in America than in European countries with more socialist policies?

Wasn't the last suicide by plane in Germany or Switzerland with a plane full of passengers?

Re: Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Security Question

#208

Post by hueving » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 9:58 PM UTC

ethbro wrote: post #172

mschuster91 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It blows my mind that taxi drivers would defend this system and not flee to Uber/Lyft/etc. For those who defend the system, often enough the medallions are their life saving / insurance when they get old, and almost always financed by loans. The medallions going worthless at the same time invalidates their retirement plans and STILL leaves them on the hook for the loan.

This is something that's made me think a lot about the health care debate. Would it not be just that, if we're going to rewrite the economic rules in some areas, we give partial compensation towards those we just screwed over? Presumably we're changing the rules because of progress (e.g. Uber and Lyft showing on-demand rideshare has a market), which is good for everyone. But say the human lifespan is 85 years +/-. 25…

That's what bankruptcy is for. You get to start over after making crappy debt bets (unless it's a student loan).

Re: Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Security Question

#209

Post by hueving » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 10:00 PM UTC

salawat wrote: post #120

It seems to me to be a continuation of the pattern of labor 'Going Postal' in the labor hostile environment that has emerged since Reagan. This should be a wake-up call to everyone in the country. We can't survive without being able to trust and respect each other as human beings. Part of that is recognizing that even the most humble occupations deserve a fair wage and chance at advancement in life. If we can't respe…

>It seems to me to be a continuation of the pattern of labor 'Going Postal' in the labor hostile environment that has emerged since Reagan.

What evidence do you have that this is a trend?

>I'm sure an MBA will surface and tell me I'm wrong, but I've not encountered a workplace that didn't marginalize their workers and generated a tragedy of the likes that has become a hallmark of the last 50 years.

Isn't that every single employer that hasn't had an employee do this?

What is your response to the European pilot that crashed a passenger plane full of passengers working for an airline in a country that eschews free market capitalism and has strong social safety nets?

Re: Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Security Question

#210

Post by hueving » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 10:01 PM UTC

kingjacob wrote: post #126

hueving wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pointless attempt to tie a political view to a tragedy, please don't do this. There have been massacres, bombings, dramatic suicides, etc long before the Reagan administration and none of them have claimed "If I would have only had 20% more compensation I wouldn't have violently murdered these 20 people." P.S. It's godspeed, not "God speed".

No one says that outright but poverty and violent extremism are pretty closely linked. Its not the only factor ofc, and youll always have outliers, but comfortable people with things worth losing are less likely to do something to endanger that.

This was a suicide, not violent extremism.