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A $250 Biohack That’s Revolutionizing Life with Diabetes

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Re: A $250 Biohack That’s Revolutionizing Life with Diabetes

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These two explanations seem entirely compatible to me. For better or for worse, in an environment where "root cause attribution" is such a preoccupation, it's not such a stretch to think that the agents acting in it would be strongly incentivized to minimize their opportunities to be the root cause - in other words, "be blamed if something goes wrong". I don't think that needs to be interpreted as nefarious. It might…

Yes. It is the "ensuring the manufacturer can't be blamed if something goes wrong" mindset that says, "it's necessary ... if somebody did something illegal or dumb, they can be sanctioned". Another approach would be to focus on patients and ignore punishments. Which is what the hackers are doing: ignoring rewards and punishments that are driving professionals in the field.

Not necessarily even illegal or dumb.

One of the things about testing drugs and medical devices is, you really can't cover all your bases. It would be too expensive to construct a clinical trial with the statistical power necessary to reliably detect very rare side effects. I don't think anyone wants to delay releasing all new drugs to the market by 40 years so that we can be sure about what happens if you take it over a lifetime. Even post-release monitoring for these things is potentially tricky, due to the poor interoperability of EHR systems and also, in many jurisdictions, unintended consequences of health care privacy laws.

Meaning that there is no amount of due diligence that will guarantee you can't get sued. Which is fine, you can always go for proportionality instead. But then, the amount of due diligence that's necessary is driven by what costs the legal system is willing and able to impose, and, at least in the legal regime I live under (USA), they've got their own entirely other set of procedures and incentive structures that they're working with.

Re: A $250 Biohack That’s Revolutionizing Life with Diabetes

#102
post #57
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well, my general impression is that doctors live under this illusion that patients will somehow succeed in making lifestyle changes that will cause the disease to go into regression or disappear altogether. Well in the last 3 months, I DID learn new eating habits, lost 15 kilos and had my meds cut from 6.5 tablets per day to 0.5 tablets a day working with a doctor and having good control on blood sugar. The big AHA…

My mom has diabetes. I am interested in knowing what diet changes did you make. Only asking as it would be helpful for others.

Here is a recent book on the topic by Dr. Joel Fuhrman: "The End of Diabetes: The Eat to Live Plan to Prevent and Reverse Diabetes".

A more general book with good advice on nutrition that is perhaps easier to follow -- but not specific to diabetes -- is "The Whole Foods Diet: The Lifesaving Plan for Health and Longevity" by John Mackey , Alona Pulde, and Matthew Lederman.

Good luck to you and your mom! It helps a lot in making lifestyle changes when family, friends, and neighbors are supportive. See also the book "The Blue Zones of Happiness: Lessons From the World's Happiest People" for a bigger picture view on that.

Good sleep is another part of the puzzle -- see Matthew Walker's book "Why We Sleep: Unlocking the Power of Sleep and Dreams" on that. Essentially, good sleep gives you better self-control during the day -- as well as helping your health in many ways including regarding diabetes.

Re: A $250 Biohack That’s Revolutionizing Life with Diabetes

#103
post #99
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. That's pretty amazing. You're accusing me of active malice for explaining the (entirely reasonable) thought process behind the government's legal system for regulation that pharma must comply with to operate. I think when you move from the realm of anecdote to dealing with statistics, products with 100 million users, and historical cases (Therac-25), you gain a perspective that regulation is probably the simples…

You're actively ignoring the point and just being offended which is natural because it was put extremely bluntly. But you've just restated that the current state of affairs is "entirely reasonable" when the comment you are replying to explains why it's actively harmful. You've provided no argument for why it's reasonable, just taken offense and waved around cases of catastrophic failure.

I don't understand what's unreasonble about:

1) companies have a profit motive and they want to design and sell products

2) historically, we have seen that companies acting with profit motives often have incentives to ignore problems with their products and even actively suppress them

3) the government wants to incentivize companies to make new products that help people

4) but they also don't want large numbers of people to die, or even small numbers of people, due to errors of any kind.

5) we have ample evidence that when unregulated, errors occur and people die. Statistically across large numbers of drugs and medical treatments, we have enough data to make strong, but not perfect statements about which processes minimize negative problems while maximizing availability of product to sick people. In some cases, people die because executives explicitly chose to cut corners. With regulation, we can catch those executives and put them in jail.

6) in general, the one thing that comes out of all of this is that extensive record keeping is required for investigators to deal with problems when they occur. Most of regulation is just record keeping- what did we do, what happened when we did it- and change control. Literally, my job was to ensure that firmware updates didn't change the observable properties of a system that was making a drug that saved people. Yes, when a firmware of a machine that makes drugs is updated, and it has a bug, people can die.

7) given about a hundred years of experience in this area, enough people who work on "reliability" (like SRE in tech) people have developed a set of techniques, called regulation, which attempts to minimize the number of deaths, while still allowing products to reach the market. Like SRE, it's a combination of hard-won experience and a lot of intelligence, along with not enough monitoring data.

8) I also feel pain and unhappiness that pharma doesn't move faster. It wasn't until I worked daily on product development and implementing regulation that I began to appreciate that this is a truly complicated problem with a lot of variables, incentives and players.

9) Even giving my best good faith effort, I simply cannot credit people who give anecdotal evidence about friends with diabetes. There are a number of reasons for this, but basically, if you do enough large-scale decision making, you'll find that anecdotes introduce bias that can lead to poor decision making. I see problems, also, in the DIY community where people sort of assume the best possible results; in science, after you run enough experiments, you get to see: it's easy to fool yourself and think what you've done is good, but it really has to percolate through the system and get evaluated and reproduced by many people before you can trust it.

If you don't think the above logic chain is reasonable, that's OK. Many people aren't happy with how slowly pharma and medical DX industries and FDA work. But, you should basically understand that the entire goal here is to ensure good products make it to the market without "too many unnecessary deaths".

The worst part of all of this is that I dedicated many years of my life to improving the speed at which drugs could be discovered and brought to patients, only to learn that the primary reasons we can't, are political, structural, systemic, and incentivized. If somebody had a better solution than what the current market has, I can point funding at them.

Re: A $250 Biohack That’s Revolutionizing Life with Diabetes

#104

Can you imagine how much money big pharma could make if they pulled their fingers out and actually created and supported a solution? If a bunch of parents on the internet can hack it together, it's hardly impossible (I'm not trying to detract from the awesome work these people have done, but my point is that they have nowhere near the same kind of resources as pharmaceutical companies). As a Type 1 Diabetic it's real…

> If a bunch of parents on the internet can hack it together I can imagine people will think this after reading this article, but in my opinion this is not how it is in reality - which is why this article is very poorly written/exaggerated. The article presents this comparison as black & white: DIY = simple and cheap, whereas pharmaceutical companies = difficult and expensive. The reality however, is not black and wh…

I agree with you, and frankly, hacking something together on your own or in a small group is not necessarily going to produce a product that you can then sell, especially considering the potential ramifications due to faults or misconfigurations, specially if you start using the data to automatically adjust your dosages. I suppose what could be nice is if the manufacturers could open up roads to hacking your own gear, but I think that this is highly unlikely as creating an 'official' route to 'mod' is going to open you up to all kinds of liability.

I get frustrated by the lack of visible innovation in diabetes treatment technology, because in most other areas of our lives we are surrounded by tech which is constantly innovating. Unfortunately it's a reality that if you are designing systems and technology that manage critical functions then they are going to take a long time to develop, let alone test, distribute, and support.

Re: A $250 Biohack That’s Revolutionizing Life with Diabetes

#105
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't answer your questions from a clinical perspective, however I'll have a stab at them. I'm a type 1 diabetic, diagnosed when I was 9. > Do you know why the applicability to type two diabetes is not as clear as for type one? I'm only stabbing at this, and it's anecdotal, but I believe it is likely due to the lack of consistency across type 2 diabetics. Whilst there is variation in Type 1 Diabetes, it is largely…

My SO has a continuous glucose monitoring, and as you say, the reading lags behind by 15-30 minutes compared to measurement from blood. But the blood measurement is a single, instantaneous value while the GCM meter shows the last 8 hour glucose levels plotted and the current upward/downward trend. While it takes a bit of cross-referencing between blood and tissue glucose levels to get used to the readings, it actuall…

> better

What happens when the sensor is not reading correctly? Isn’t that the biggest possible danger? The human “knows” it’s wrong but software?

Re: A $250 Biohack That’s Revolutionizing Life with Diabetes

#106
post #43
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know if any communities of folks managing T1D with keto diet? I looked into it for my daughter when she was first diagnosed but had a hard time differentiating fact from keto evangelizing and medical community hand wringing.

unfortunately no, i don't know any. it is frustrating indeed that keto is being appropriated by fad evangelists. it's a diet that needs lots of reading and preparation. i'm not a doctor, but common sense tells me that a diet that reduces the need for insulin should also help managing t1d, but obviously it's better to consult a professional.

Keto diet done wrong may have lethal or life changing consequences for T1D patients. Done right it might have positive effects but that is afaik not backed by research at the moment.

Common sense in this case turned into potentially dangerous unqualified medical advice.

Re: A $250 Biohack That’s Revolutionizing Life with Diabetes

#107
post #105
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My SO has a continuous glucose monitoring, and as you say, the reading lags behind by 15-30 minutes compared to measurement from blood. But the blood measurement is a single, instantaneous value while the GCM meter shows the last 8 hour glucose levels plotted and the current upward/downward trend. While it takes a bit of cross-referencing between blood and tissue glucose levels to get used to the readings, it actuall…

> better What happens when the sensor is not reading correctly? Isn’t that the biggest possible danger? The human “knows” it’s wrong but software?

How do you tell that the glucose reading measured from blood (the old way) is correct? You can't. The new method is not worse than the old in this respect.

And again, you get at least 8 hours of history graphed on the display now. If it doesn't look sensible (w.r.t eating and insulin doses), you need a backup. If the old fashioned blood glucose meter gives a wrong reading, you are much worse off.

Note that the sensors are tested and approved, not the DIY hack the article talks about.

Re: A $250 Biohack That’s Revolutionizing Life with Diabetes

#108
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This looks to be a treatment for Type 2, the parent comment's talking about multiple children, so, probably Type 1. At least, I hope so.

My exact thought, but still, why have multiple sick children?!

Type 1 usually doesn't mean a child is Born sick. There's usually some triggering illness and then the immune system decides that it's time to fuck up the pancreas.

While there's a genetic element to it, there's usually nothing saying some specific kid is going to get it.

So, you get a cold sometime between the ages of ~2 and 18 and suddenly you're islet cells go bye-bye.

Re: A $250 Biohack That’s Revolutionizing Life with Diabetes

#109
post #3
post #2

I have type 2 diabetes and I've always been a bit envious of insulin pumps, not because I love having a machine plugged into my body (I don't), but because they offer better control of blood glucose peaks, since they use fast-acting insulin exclusively. The pancreas secretes insulin in pulses and pumps can mimic that. What has turned me off from pumps (apart from doctors generally not recommending them for type 2 dia…

Why don't doctors recommend them for type 2 diabetes? Well, my general impression is that doctors live under this illusion that patients will somehow succeed in making lifestyle changes that will cause the disease to go into regression or disappear altogether. Also, they prefer to try medications like glucophage before they resort to insulin. There just seems to be less eagerness to finely manage type 2 diabetics, ma…

It's not entirely an illusion. Some patients do succeed in making lifestyle changes that cause type 2 diabetes to go into remission. But the best results have been achieved with healthcare providers actively helping patients make dietary changes on a frequent basis.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6...

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs13300-018-0373-...

Re: A $250 Biohack That’s Revolutionizing Life with Diabetes

#110
post #107
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> better What happens when the sensor is not reading correctly? Isn’t that the biggest possible danger? The human “knows” it’s wrong but software?

How do you tell that the glucose reading measured from blood (the old way) is correct? You can't. The new method is not worse than the old in this respect. And again, you get at least 8 hours of history graphed on the display now. If it doesn't look sensible (w.r.t eating and insulin doses), you need a backup. If the old fashioned blood glucose meter gives a wrong reading, you are much worse off. Note that the sensor…

Old way: you repeat the measurement nothing is in your body. and you konw di you feel e.g. hypo. New way: the sensor needle is simply a little off (in stays sticked). You don’t know, the software doesn’t know. The sensor is not magic that works 100% of the time, it ends in a needle sticked in your body, many ways to go wrong, even if it worked a while.

And the danger of “fully automatic” is there.

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