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A $250 Biohack That’s Revolutionizing Life with Diabetes

bloomberg.com

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Re: A $250 Biohack That’s Revolutionizing Life with Diabetes

#21

Post by femto »

jimrandomh wrote: post #16

The article, strangely, leaves out the name of the project it's reporting on. It's OpenAPS, http://openaps.readthedocs.io/en/latest/ . I use it and have worked on the code. It's a massive health and quality of life improvement over anything that exists which is FDA approved. The core problem is that the FDA-approved devices are optimized not for getting the best result, but for ensuring the manufacturer can't be blam…

From the docs:

"One of the most frequently asked questions is “I have a 723 pump but it has version 2.5B software version. Has anyone figured out a way to make newer model Medronic pumps compatible? Like flash older version of software onto my 723 2.5B pump?” The answer is “No. The ability to downgrade software versions in the pumps does not exist. It has been investigated and nobody has made any successful progress to that end.”"

I'm curious as to what form the investigation took. Are you aware of an online record of this investigation?

Are compatible pumps rare enough that the need to preserve them is constraining reverse engineering efforts?

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Edit: For those wondering what these things look like, here is the FCC submission including internal photos. FCC is involved because of the integrated wireless link.

https://fccid.io/OH21510

https://fccid.io/OH21510/Internal-Photos/Internal-Photos-239...

Looks like a System-on-a-Chip with separate memory chips? Can't make out the numbers. Opening in GIMP, it looks as if the photo has been doctored to remove chip numbers? That 12-pin unpopulated footprint on the processor board is for a test/JTAG header?

Re: A $250 Biohack That’s Revolutionizing Life with Diabetes

#22

Post by mkrecny »

zaroth wrote: post #18

A continuous glucose monitor (CGM) uses a very thin gauge wire to sense interstitial fluid as a proxy for blood sugar. My kids have tried Dexcom G4 CGMs a couple years ago. The G4 was never approved to dose insulin directly off the CGM reported value, we would confirm with a finger prick before dosing a correction. The G4 also required “calibration” where you would type in the reading from a finger stick and it would…

Have you looked into, or have any thoughts on Virta Health as a potential for your kids?

https://www.virtahealth.com/

Re: A $250 Biohack That’s Revolutionizing Life with Diabetes

#23

Post by seehafer »

jimrandomh wrote: post #16

The article, strangely, leaves out the name of the project it's reporting on. It's OpenAPS, http://openaps.readthedocs.io/en/latest/ . I use it and have worked on the code. It's a massive health and quality of life improvement over anything that exists which is FDA approved. The core problem is that the FDA-approved devices are optimized not for getting the best result, but for ensuring the manufacturer can't be blam…

> The core problem is that the FDA-approved devices are optimized not for getting the best result, but for ensuring the manufacturer can't be blamed if something goes wrong

No, they're optimized for reducing risk as much as possible. The amount of scrutiny on a commercial product from a Fortune 200 company is about 2 orders of magnitude more than any DIY project would ever get.

Re: A $250 Biohack That’s Revolutionizing Life with Diabetes

#24

Post by oh_sigh »

femto wrote: post #21
jimrandomh wrote: post #16

The article, strangely, leaves out the name of the project it's reporting on. It's OpenAPS, http://openaps.readthedocs.io/en/latest/ . I use it and have worked on the code. It's a massive health and quality of life improvement over anything that exists which is FDA approved. The core problem is that the FDA-approved devices are optimized not for getting the best result, but for ensuring the manufacturer can't be blam…

From the docs: "One of the most frequently asked questions is “I have a 723 pump but it has version 2.5B software version. Has anyone figured out a way to make newer model Medronic pumps compatible? Like flash older version of software onto my 723 2.5B pump?” The answer is “No. The ability to downgrade software versions in the pumps does not exist. It has been investigated and nobody has made any successful progress…

Someone should issue a challenge to hotz et al. My guess is that this the intersection between diabetics and reverse engineering hackers is only a very small number of people, so this kind of device or impact it could have on people might not even be generally known in the community

Re: A $250 Biohack That’s Revolutionizing Life with Diabetes

#25

Post by peanutz454 »

gumby wrote: post #10
ThJ wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't doctors recommend them for type 2 diabetes? Well, my general impression is that doctors live under this illusion that patients will somehow succeed in making lifestyle changes that will cause the disease to go into regression or disappear altogether. Also, they prefer to try medications like glucophage before they resort to insulin. There just seems to be less eagerness to finely manage type 2 diabetics, ma…

> my general impression is that doctors live under this illusion that patients will somehow succeed in making lifestyle changes > Also, they prefer to try medications like glucophage before they resort to insulin. A couple of points: 1- the targets set by associations like the ADA actually assume the patients won't be able to make significant lifestyle changes; for example the ADA A1C targets are higher than for heal…

I think quite a few people will be interested in knowing how did you cure yourself.

Re: A $250 Biohack That’s Revolutionizing Life with Diabetes

#26

Post by parrellel »

mkrecny wrote: post #22
zaroth wrote: post #18

A continuous glucose monitor (CGM) uses a very thin gauge wire to sense interstitial fluid as a proxy for blood sugar. My kids have tried Dexcom G4 CGMs a couple years ago. The G4 was never approved to dose insulin directly off the CGM reported value, we would confirm with a finger prick before dosing a correction. The G4 also required “calibration” where you would type in the reading from a finger stick and it would…

Have you looked into, or have any thoughts on Virta Health as a potential for your kids? https://www.virtahealth.com/

This looks to be a treatment for Type 2, the parent comment's talking about multiple children, so, probably Type 1. At least, I hope so.

Re: A $250 Biohack That’s Revolutionizing Life with Diabetes

#28

Post by inetsee »

gumby wrote: post #10
ThJ wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't doctors recommend them for type 2 diabetes? Well, my general impression is that doctors live under this illusion that patients will somehow succeed in making lifestyle changes that will cause the disease to go into regression or disappear altogether. Also, they prefer to try medications like glucophage before they resort to insulin. There just seems to be less eagerness to finely manage type 2 diabetics, ma…

> my general impression is that doctors live under this illusion that patients will somehow succeed in making lifestyle changes > Also, they prefer to try medications like glucophage before they resort to insulin. A couple of points: 1- the targets set by associations like the ADA actually assume the patients won't be able to make significant lifestyle changes; for example the ADA A1C targets are higher than for heal…

I have latent autoimmune diabetes in adults (LADA), sometimes called type 1.5 diabetes. Onset was in my early 40s, and I am now insulin dependent. I have reasonably good control (estimated A1C about 6.5) without a continuous glucose monitor and insulin pump. I have been looking into the Freestyle Libre glucose monitor to get better monitoring of my glucose levels, but the cost is still quite high.

I would really like to know more about how you and your doctors cured your condition.

Re: A $250 Biohack That’s Revolutionizing Life with Diabetes

#29

Post by jakobegger »

femto wrote: post #12

Reading around, it's the controller software that is DIY, and it's grown to the point where a DIY device has been built to run the controller software. The sensor and pump/actuator are proprietary Medtronic devices, connected to the controller via wireless links. The DIY controller came about because Medtronic didn't secure their wireless traffic and the protocol was reverse egnineered. New units now come with a secu…

Near the end of the article:

> A European team recently created an app for Android phones and cracked the code in a popular pump from Roche Holding AG

So even if they don't find a partner, they'll probably find pumps they can use.

Re: A $250 Biohack That’s Revolutionizing Life with Diabetes

#30

Post by jcims »

zaroth wrote: post #18

A continuous glucose monitor (CGM) uses a very thin gauge wire to sense interstitial fluid as a proxy for blood sugar. My kids have tried Dexcom G4 CGMs a couple years ago. The G4 was never approved to dose insulin directly off the CGM reported value, we would confirm with a finger prick before dosing a correction. The G4 also required “calibration” where you would type in the reading from a finger stick and it would…

Does the G6 interface with OmniPod at all or do you just use it like a continuous finger-prick test?

My youngest (now nearly 16 years old) was diagnosed about two years ago. She's currently on Medtronic's closed loop system (860), but honestly it's so finicky I'm starting to look at switching systems. My daughter is basically at the point of burnout and sees the whole thing as nothing more than a major annoyance. She regularly lets her sensor expire, goes without calibrating for hours and hours or will look at a mid-day reading of 280 and just do nothing. It doesn't help that she seems to have acquired a profound craving for carbs that has her sneaking food and binging when she's unsupervised.

I'm thinking that maybe a system that doesn't purport to be automatic at all will make her role in the process more clear and hopefully get her in a better place to self-manage before she heads off to college. As it stands right now I can't imagine leaving her to her own devices for more than a couple of days. (FWIW we also have her working with a therapist to help manage some of the emotional aspects of this, but we really need to find one that is experienced dealing with T1D patients)

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