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Introducing Android 9 Pie

android-developers.googleblog.com

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Re: Introducing Android 9 Pie

#351

Post by scarface74 »

Fnoord wrote: post #230
scarface74 wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People didn’t “love it” they tolerated it

Because it is a trade off between the largest, consistent screen size, having a front camera, and a notch (that's how we call it, this is the first time I see the term cutoff). I dislike the notch, but it isn't very annoying. You still got your status stuff on the top left and right. However, if I'd be having my device in landscape it'd thoroughly annoy me no matter what. It destroys the device symmetry!! However lan…

The notch is in a separate category. It was definitely a natural necessary technical compromise. For ergonomic reasons, a phone can only be so large, but you also want the screen as large as possible. There is an argument to be made for getting rid of the headphone jack to increase the room available in the phone.

The butterfly keyboard was an unnecessary attempt at thinness. The laptop did not need to be thinner for ergonomic reasons.

The touchbsr generates a lot of nerd rage but most people don’t really care about the function keys.

Re: Introducing Android 9 Pie

#352

Post by izacus »

cmurf wrote: post #343
izacus wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That wakelock detector is probably showing wrong data (especially on newer API levels). Can you try something more advanced like Battery Historian (in dev tools) to see what's waking up the CPU? (And no, Google apps are beholden to all power saving restrictions like other apps - Play Services being the exception because it services functionality that must work at all times.)

Battery Historian isn't really helping pin this down. CPU is running the whole time over night, ~5%/hr drain doing nothing. Kernel only uptime has hundreds of events per minute with reason "unknown". Userspace wakelocks total less than 16s every 20 minutes with no app I recognize named (Babel_ConcService is the top offender). Top app is blank as is Long waklocks and Screen. Doze is "light" all night. Kernel Wakesourc…

Hmmm... if I remember correctly the concservice thing is supposed to come from the Hangouts app. Unless you have Fi, can you try disabling it?

Re: Introducing Android 9 Pie

#353

Post by Fnoord »

scarface74 wrote: post #351
Fnoord wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it is a trade off between the largest, consistent screen size, having a front camera, and a notch (that's how we call it, this is the first time I see the term cutoff). I dislike the notch, but it isn't very annoying. You still got your status stuff on the top left and right. However, if I'd be having my device in landscape it'd thoroughly annoy me no matter what. It destroys the device symmetry!! However lan…

The notch is in a separate category. It was definitely a natural necessary technical compromise. For ergonomic reasons, a phone can only be so large, but you also want the screen as large as possible. There is an argument to be made for getting rid of the headphone jack to increase the room available in the phone. The butterfly keyboard was an unnecessary attempt at thinness. The laptop did not need to be thinner for…

Some phones which had 3.5mm jack removed have been opened; they actually easily had room for the jack.

Re: Introducing Android 9 Pie

#354

Post by cmurf »

izacus wrote: post #352
cmurf wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Battery Historian isn't really helping pin this down. CPU is running the whole time over night, ~5%/hr drain doing nothing. Kernel only uptime has hundreds of events per minute with reason "unknown". Userspace wakelocks total less than 16s every 20 minutes with no app I recognize named (Babel_ConcService is the top offender). Top app is blank as is Long waklocks and Screen. Doze is "light" all night. Kernel Wakesourc…

Hmmm... if I remember correctly the concservice thing is supposed to come from the Hangouts app. Unless you have Fi, can you try disabling it?

I've uninstalled Hangouts Dialer and Hangouts, reset stats and rebooted, left the phone untouched since. No change in discharge rate, it's still around 4-6% per hour. The top user wake lock offender is NlpWakeLock now, but it lasts just a second, but happens every 10-15 minutes.

Still event1 and event5 listed as wakesources with tens of thousands of counts per hour each. And still kernel wakeup reason "unknown" 12000+ counts per hour and 58m per hour duration (the entire 3h46m the phone was left since booting until capturing the bugreport).

The big gripe I have is in fact not the battery loss. It's the lack of tools that reliably pin the blame on the cause of the problem. So now I have to once again F around with uninstalling apps one by one to find out whodunnit and past experience tells me it will be a Google app or service with no recourse for getting the problem fixed. It's really an irritating platform.

Edit: And the WLD app shows the phone is "awake" 99% of the time. But if I put it in airplane mode, or wipe it and don't put it in airplane mode, it'll be awake 1% of the time (this is being left alone untouched for 1-4 hours).

Re: Introducing Android 9 Pie

#355

Post by confounded »

dnomad wrote: post #312
confounded wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great stuff. However, while I'm happy that they're limiting third-party access to this data, given Google's business model, I still wouldn't trust them with it.

Ironically, there's probably no organization on the planet that you should trust more with your personal information than Google. No organization takes privacy and security more seriously and spends more money and time getting it right. (Yes, that includes well-funded intelligence agencies like the NSA and your closest friends and family.) The idea that Google is going to turn around and start selling your informatio…

> Ironically, there's probably no organization on the planet that you should trust more with your personal information than Google

Thank you for the suggestion. We likely have different ideals about what a healthy version of the future looks like.

> ...selling your information to third parties...

Not what I said. Google’s business model is to extract and store as much information about consumers as possible, enrich and correlate it, and then financially exploit it. Currently the best way they’ve found to do that is targeted advertising.

By doing so, they make this extremely revealing data available to every government in every jurisdiction in which they operate, which is pretty much all of them. They work to normalize this surveillance as inevitable and unstoppable.

Additionally, while it would currently run counter to their business model to sell raw data, there’s nothing to legally stop them, if that business model should change.

Just like Facebook, Google are now very close to market saturation. To keep growth up, they’ll need to increase revenue per user. How will they do that? We don’t know. But there’s a relatively high chance that I’ll like it even less than what they’re doing now.

> ... dumb

:)

Re: Introducing Android 9 Pie

#356

Post by izacus »

cmurf wrote: post #354
izacus wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmmm... if I remember correctly the concservice thing is supposed to come from the Hangouts app. Unless you have Fi, can you try disabling it?

I've uninstalled Hangouts Dialer and Hangouts, reset stats and rebooted, left the phone untouched since. No change in discharge rate, it's still around 4-6% per hour. The top user wake lock offender is NlpWakeLock now, but it lasts just a second, but happens every 10-15 minutes. Still event1 and event5 listed as wakesources with tens of thousands of counts per hour each. And still kernel wakeup reason "unknown" 12000…

Yeah, honestly this looks like there's something wrong with the actual phone (not software) - those "event" sources tend to come from kernel interrupts and those issues tend to happen when a sensor or something related malfunctions. Just a guess tho.

Re: Introducing Android 9 Pie

#357

Post by MBCook »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #141
MBCook wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do. Customers voted overwhelmingly ‘we don’t care’ so the headphone jack didn’t return.

Did they? Or did they just express they care more about staying in Apple ecosystem than the headphone jack? This is my point: there isn't really a way to express a preference for something minor. Smartphone market is mostly "take it or leave it".

That WAS the vote. They didn’t care enough to leave Apple over it in sufficient numbers for Apple to change position.

Re: Introducing Android 9 Pie

#358

Post by cmurf »

izacus wrote: post #356
cmurf wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've uninstalled Hangouts Dialer and Hangouts, reset stats and rebooted, left the phone untouched since. No change in discharge rate, it's still around 4-6% per hour. The top user wake lock offender is NlpWakeLock now, but it lasts just a second, but happens every 10-15 minutes. Still event1 and event5 listed as wakesources with tens of thousands of counts per hour each. And still kernel wakeup reason "unknown" 12000…

Yeah, honestly this looks like there's something wrong with the actual phone (not software) - those "event" sources tend to come from kernel interrupts and those issues tend to happen when a sensor or something related malfunctions. Just a guess tho.

Except doesn't happen after a reset. Doesn't happen when in airplane mode. Happens only after I restore apps. Something is busy doing something when there's network access, and I suspect the 15% to 40% drains are when wifi goes down for whatever reason and I'm left with a really crummy weak mobile signal, which I know drains phone batteries fast just by the nature of having to compensate for weak signal.

Re: Introducing Android 9 Pie

#359

Post by ehsankia »

anonytrary wrote: post #266
ehsankia wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can disable this too: Home Settings > Suggestions I believe the computation is done fully locally, as for "tracking", every single OS has a history of what applications you've launched recently, how is that any different?

> doing deep analysis of my every input and my context in order to "drive engagement" and "surfacing the best parts of the apps [I] use all the time"? This is much richer data than a list of recently used apps, right? Do OSs also record that information?

A lot of those words are from the commenter, not sure where they pulled it from. The article says:

> Actions take advantage of machine learning to surface your app to the user at just the right time, based on your app's semantic intents and the user's context.

"Semantic intents" are basically Android intents. So yes, it's more than just what app you are in, but rather which window of the app you are in. There is also user context, which is things like what time it is or what other apps you have opened.

All this is fed to a model that basically practice, given the current context, what other intents you may need. It's nothing really out of the ordinary.

The commenter tries to imply it that it tracks every input, which is unfounded.

Re: Introducing Android 9 Pie

#360

Post by knocte »

Benjamin_Dobell wrote: post #278
knocte wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haha, but in Apple case, you can't even see the code, dude.

You realize the entirety of Google Play Services is closed source, right?

Woops... well, but at least Android core is not, which is better than "everything close" (Apple).
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