31–40 of 53 posts
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes it is, but what does that have to do with the nature of the comment?
Considering the blatant lies and misinformation being spread in the comment, the fact that it's a fresh, new account makes it suspect. Couple the two together makes it for a comment that doesn't honestly want to drive good conversation.
It's not just companies, it's US people too. The original HN thread on this subject ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17660872 ) had a truly depressing percentage of comments saying "No big deal" using some combination of whataboutism, false equivalence and simple fatalism. I seem to remember that when Google first pulled out of China the reaction among HN types was much more positive; what has happened to our m…
Uh, morals? What does ethics have to do with Google operating their search business in China? I'm confused why I am supposed to be outraged. I don't have any particularly strong feelings about censorship in foreign countries - how does what the Chinese government do affect American speech? I guess censorship in general is _bad_, but it's purely an internal, domestic matter. The Chinese aren't scrubbing American textb…
However, the Chinese Communist Party is in fact coercing American websites to conform to its political preferences.
"It issued an ultimatum that expired last week, asking airlines around the world to refer to Taiwan as part of China on their websites."
These US corporate elites are selling out US and the rest of the democratic free world in order to meet shareholder's expectations (and of course, MONEY!). And giving into a dictatorship and giving that dictatorship jobs, money, capital, knowledge, and power. That dictatorship now has imprisoned close to 1 million people in Xinjiang. Shame on you, Sundar Pichai. At least when Google was lead by Erich Schmidt, Google…
Trade with China has helped lift hundreds of millions of people out of poverty, while helping with the prosperity of the United States. True the corporations are reaping most of the benefits, but that's natural under a free market. We need reforms here in America to broaden the benefits of trade to all workers. Outsourcing to Asian countries existed prior to China's rise in the supply chain. Most of the stuff that is "Made in China" have major components that come from America's allies such as Japan, Korea, and Taiwan.
Google is in a position to offer a superior search product to China. We should see this as an opportunity to advance freedom.
It's not just companies, it's US people too. The original HN thread on this subject ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17660872 ) had a truly depressing percentage of comments saying "No big deal" using some combination of whataboutism, false equivalence and simple fatalism. I seem to remember that when Google first pulled out of China the reaction among HN types was much more positive; what has happened to our m…
Uh, morals? What does ethics have to do with Google operating their search business in China? I'm confused why I am supposed to be outraged. I don't have any particularly strong feelings about censorship in foreign countries - how does what the Chinese government do affect American speech? I guess censorship in general is _bad_, but it's purely an internal, domestic matter. The Chinese aren't scrubbing American textb…
These US corporate elites are selling out US and the rest of the democratic free world in order to meet shareholder's expectations (and of course, MONEY!). And giving into a dictatorship and giving that dictatorship jobs, money, capital, knowledge, and power. That dictatorship now has imprisoned close to 1 million people in Xinjiang. Shame on you, Sundar Pichai. At least when Google was lead by Erich Schmidt, Google…
The US was not engaged with China prior to 1971, how did that work out for the United States and for China? Over the long-term, engagement with China has led to more personal freedom for the Chinese. Trade with China has helped lift hundreds of millions of people out of poverty, while helping with the prosperity of the United States. True the corporations are reaping most of the benefits, but that's natural under a f…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Considering the blatant lies and misinformation being spread in the comment, the fact that it's a fresh, new account makes it suspect. Couple the two together makes it for a comment that doesn't honestly want to drive good conversation.
> Considering the blatant lies and misinformation being spread in the comment, the fact that it's a fresh, new account makes it suspect. What blatant lies? Everything there looks true, except maybe the employment figures (the US figure apparently includes all people working in the "the iOS ecosystem", which seems totally bogus to me), but that's actually being generous to Apple. Edit: Just to quickly fact check the o…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
The US was not engaged with China prior to 1971, how did that work out for the United States and for China? Over the long-term, engagement with China has led to more personal freedom for the Chinese. Trade with China has helped lift hundreds of millions of people out of poverty, while helping with the prosperity of the United States. True the corporations are reaping most of the benefits, but that's natural under a f…
Are you seriously suggesting that a censored search engine is "an opportunity to advance freedom"?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
The US was not engaged with China prior to 1971, how did that work out for the United States and for China? Over the long-term, engagement with China has led to more personal freedom for the Chinese. Trade with China has helped lift hundreds of millions of people out of poverty, while helping with the prosperity of the United States. True the corporations are reaping most of the benefits, but that's natural under a f…
Are you seriously suggesting that a censored search engine is "an opportunity to advance freedom"?
The ideal option that we'd all love to see, of the Chinese people given full and free access to uncensored and unmonitored information, is unlikely to be on offer any time soon. Refusing to meet the Communist Party's demands has only meant that control of information by the Party goes unchallenged in any way. Search is not something so unique and powerful that only specially smart Westerners can do it. As a result, holding out for this ideal is equivalent to actively advocating for the status quo.
That's the question at hand. Do we prefer posturing in the form of a moral stand that hurts people and strengthens the Communist Party or do we accept that other options might be worth considering?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Are you seriously suggesting that a censored search engine is "an opportunity to advance freedom"?
Yes. The choice before Google is whether to enter the Chinese market. Staying out of China may make some people feel morally satisfied, but will not give Chinese people more information. Rather Google should be using its influence to challenge censorship from the inside after it reenters the Chinese market.
Entering the Chinese market also lends prestige to the censoring regime (e.g. "all the companies of the world submit to our demands"), and also makes those demands seem more reasonable.
> Rather Google should be using its influence to challenge censorship from the inside after it reenters the Chinese market.
The CCP doesn't care at all about Google's challenges to it. Either Google complies totally, or it's out. The CCP doesn't need Google, and they probably would rather people use Baidu anyway.