US companies giving in to pressure from China • Hacker News Board

Re: US companies giving in to pressure from China

#11

Post by seanmcdirmid » Tue, Aug 07, 2018, 6:06 PM UTC

pnw_hazor wrote: post #9

Boeing and other traditional high-skill/tech manufacturers have been giving away their to China technology for years. CEOs/Boards/State don't care though, its all about next quarter's numbers.

Boeing doesn’t sell tech to China. They sell them planes, spare parts, they even put a finishing center in China, but no IP transfer.

McDonal Douglas did sell MD80 machining tools to China, which is what the 909 is based on. However, this is only for the body, the other stuff (avionics, jet engines) are being imported.

Re: US companies giving in to pressure from China

#12

Post by seanmcdirmid » Tue, Aug 07, 2018, 6:08 PM UTC

autokad wrote: post #7

Analemma_ wrote: post #2

It's not just companies, it's US people too. The original HN thread on this subject ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17660872 ) had a truly depressing percentage of comments saying "No big deal" using some combination of whataboutism, false equivalence and simple fatalism. I seem to remember that when Google first pulled out of China the reaction among HN types was much more positive; what has happened to our m…

I don't find it odd or wrong that companies are abiding to the law when they offer services within a certain jurisdiction. Google pulled out because of hacking and attacks against their services, if I remember correctly.

Google pulled out because of the hacks, but remember both Page and Brin came from eastern block countries, so they had a more idealistic and personal outlook on the matter (at least at the time).

Re: US companies giving in to pressure from China

#13

Post by mobmobmob » Tue, Aug 07, 2018, 6:09 PM UTC

These US corporate elites are selling out US and the rest of the democratic free world in order to meet shareholder's expectations (and of course, MONEY!). And giving into a dictatorship and giving that dictatorship jobs, money, capital, knowledge, and power. That dictatorship now has imprisoned close to 1 million people in Xinjiang.

Shame on you, Sundar Pichai. At least when Google was lead by Erich Schmidt, Google pulled out of China, and didn't bend to the whims of Chinese government.

Shame on you, Tim Cook. Apple has 4.8 million jobs in China, more than double the jobs in US. https://247wallst.com/jobs/2017/03/17/apple-supports-4-8-mil... . Shame on you for not bringing jobs back when news broke out that Foxconn has created a slave labor like working condition.

Shame on you, Mark Zuckerberg, for continuing to appease the dictator in China, so that Facebook may gain a foothold there.

Shame on you, Satya Nadella, for continuing to supply censored search results in Bing. and for not taking a stand against censorship. But I guess the microsoft borgship has a lot in common with China.

Shame on you, Jeff Bezos. You become the richest man on earth, by allowing pirated, stolen, IP infriged goods from China to be sold on your platform without care, destroying small US businesses. You also partnered with Foxconn for Amazon Echo, tablet, and other hardwares. Amazon is a showcase for trade imbalance. disgusting.

Re: US companies giving in to pressure from China

#14

Post by sykhic » Tue, Aug 07, 2018, 6:11 PM UTC

Analemma_ wrote: post #2

It's not just companies, it's US people too. The original HN thread on this subject ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17660872 ) had a truly depressing percentage of comments saying "No big deal" using some combination of whataboutism, false equivalence and simple fatalism. I seem to remember that when Google first pulled out of China the reaction among HN types was much more positive; what has happened to our m…

It's increasingly hard to justify not doing business in China for moral reasons whilst doing business in the U.S. If the moral high ground could indisputably be claimed by the U.S. then peoples' views would be different. Now it's not a big deal that Google wants to do business in China since it's doing business in the U.S.

It's not necessarily that morality has gone down in the U.S; it's that trust in the morality of America's leaders has gone down. I see this as a sign of a decline in the faith of America's institutions. Also with globalization the distinction between nation-states begins to erode. This is especially so in the case of business.

Re: US companies giving in to pressure from China

#15

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Aug 07, 2018, 6:17 PM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #11

pnw_hazor wrote: post #9

Boeing and other traditional high-skill/tech manufacturers have been giving away their to China technology for years. CEOs/Boards/State don't care though, its all about next quarter's numbers.

Boeing doesn’t sell tech to China. They sell them planes, spare parts, they even put a finishing center in China, but no IP transfer. McDonal Douglas did sell MD80 machining tools to China, which is what the 909 is based on. However, this is only for the body, the other stuff (avionics, jet engines) are being imported.

[deleted]

Re: US companies giving in to pressure from China

#16

Post by Afforess » Tue, Aug 07, 2018, 6:17 PM UTC

Analemma_ wrote: post #2

It's not just companies, it's US people too. The original HN thread on this subject ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17660872 ) had a truly depressing percentage of comments saying "No big deal" using some combination of whataboutism, false equivalence and simple fatalism. I seem to remember that when Google first pulled out of China the reaction among HN types was much more positive; what has happened to our m…

Uh, morals? What does ethics have to do with Google operating their search business in China?

I'm confused why I am supposed to be outraged. I don't have any particularly strong feelings about censorship in foreign countries - how does what the Chinese government do affect American speech? I guess censorship in general is _bad_, but it's purely an internal, domestic matter. The Chinese aren't scrubbing American textbooks of the historical record. Really, I think I've only noticed China's influence in cinema; I see more Asian lead roles in Hollywood films, but this seems more a corrective change than bad thing.

I'm not seeing how what happens to internet search in China affects Americans. Nor what ethical concerns there are.

Re: US companies giving in to pressure from China

#17

Post by excalibur » Tue, Aug 07, 2018, 6:18 PM UTC

mobmobmob wrote: post #13

These US corporate elites are selling out US and the rest of the democratic free world in order to meet shareholder's expectations (and of course, MONEY!). And giving into a dictatorship and giving that dictatorship jobs, money, capital, knowledge, and power. That dictatorship now has imprisoned close to 1 million people in Xinjiang. Shame on you, Sundar Pichai. At least when Google was lead by Erich Schmidt, Google…

> user: mobmobmob > created: 17 minutes ago

Re: US companies giving in to pressure from China

#18

Post by xeromal » Tue, Aug 07, 2018, 6:20 PM UTC

excalibur wrote: post #17

mobmobmob wrote: post #13

These US corporate elites are selling out US and the rest of the democratic free world in order to meet shareholder's expectations (and of course, MONEY!). And giving into a dictatorship and giving that dictatorship jobs, money, capital, knowledge, and power. That dictatorship now has imprisoned close to 1 million people in Xinjiang. Shame on you, Sundar Pichai. At least when Google was lead by Erich Schmidt, Google…

> user: mobmobmob > created: 17 minutes ago

Is that why the user is green? I've always wondered?

Re: US companies giving in to pressure from China

#19

Post by EliRivers » Tue, Aug 07, 2018, 6:21 PM UTC

Afforess wrote: post #16

Analemma_ wrote: post #2

It's not just companies, it's US people too. The original HN thread on this subject ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17660872 ) had a truly depressing percentage of comments saying "No big deal" using some combination of whataboutism, false equivalence and simple fatalism. I seem to remember that when Google first pulled out of China the reaction among HN types was much more positive; what has happened to our m…

Uh, morals? What does ethics have to do with Google operating their search business in China? I'm confused why I am supposed to be outraged. I don't have any particularly strong feelings about censorship in foreign countries - how does what the Chinese government do affect American speech? I guess censorship in general is _bad_, but it's purely an internal, domestic matter. The Chinese aren't scrubbing American textb…

The Chinese aren't scrubbing American textbooks of the historical record.

The Chinese government certainly would like to, though, and if they get powerful enough they will.

Re: US companies giving in to pressure from China

#20

Post by Kalium » Tue, Aug 07, 2018, 6:22 PM UTC

Afforess wrote: post #16

Analemma_ wrote: post #2

It's not just companies, it's US people too. The original HN thread on this subject ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17660872 ) had a truly depressing percentage of comments saying "No big deal" using some combination of whataboutism, false equivalence and simple fatalism. I seem to remember that when Google first pulled out of China the reaction among HN types was much more positive; what has happened to our m…

Uh, morals? What does ethics have to do with Google operating their search business in China? I'm confused why I am supposed to be outraged. I don't have any particularly strong feelings about censorship in foreign countries - how does what the Chinese government do affect American speech? I guess censorship in general is _bad_, but it's purely an internal, domestic matter. The Chinese aren't scrubbing American textb…

I believe the expected reaction is the same amount of moral outrage that would accompany the American government treating the American public the same way.