YouTube Bans Alex Jones, Following Facebook's and Apple's Lead • Hacker News Board

senorjazz wrote: post #58

myf01d wrote: post #25

[flagged]

> CNN and other liberal media aren't really much different CNN and others only look liberal if you are way out there on the right. They are anything but liberal.

enlighten me, they are what then?

Re: YouTube Bans Alex Jones, Following Facebook's and Apple's Lead

#74

Post by dunpeal » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 10:11 PM UTC

tryitnow wrote: post #56

Tomminn wrote: post #12

From Wikipedia: "The InfoWars website receives approximately 10 million monthly visits, making it more visited than some mainstream news websites such as The Economist and Newsweek." This bothers me. Say what you like about his content, but it is not fringe. He is the preferred "thinker" of a significant fraction of the population. If you think the solution is to deplatform him, you're thinking about the problem wron…

I don't think it's about ideas, I'm not sure where you're getting that from. The article explicitly says he's banned because of TOS violations. The article is not clear about what those are, but I assume they fall under hate speech and harassment. Specifically, I am guessing this has something to do with Jones taking legal actions against parents whose child was murdered. I don't think this has anything to do with hi…

> The article explicitly says he's banned because of TOS violations. The article is not clear about what those are, but I assume they fall under hate speech and harassment.

Not at all a fan of Mr Jones (the little I've seen makes him seem like a garden variety nutcase peddling inane conspiracy theories), but aren't we just a little bit concerned when someone is banned on the same day by all the major internet content shops due to some unspecified "TOS violations"?

Did he violate all these various different TOS agreements on the same day? If so, how is it not extremely obvious which term he broke?

I think this demonstrates the power of the internet's big content vendors. They can block anyone, at any time, for any reason. They're not accountable nor required to uphold any freedom of speech, yet it's how we all get our information now.

There is still freedom of speech in physical public spaces, but a large and increasing share of our lives is spent on the privatized spaces of the internet, where corporations are the absolute arbitrators of our rights to express and consume speech.

Jones is not a generally sympathetic figure, and few of us will be genuinely sorry to see him go. But what about the next guy marked for deletion?

"First they came for the kooks..."

Re: YouTube Bans Alex Jones, Following Facebook's and Apple's Lead

#75

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 10:11 PM UTC

wmil wrote: post #52

tchaffee wrote: post #3

In other discussions about this action, I've seen lots of confusion about what the 1st Amendment guarantees. Too many people think it guarantees an outcome: that the government must protect your right to free speech and make sure you have a platform for free speech. When in fact it's almost the opposite: it prevents the government from interfering with free speech, specifically Congress can not pass any laws that int…

The major risk is the FEC. This push is coming from a desire to prevent Jones from being active in the 2018 midterms. If a Republican files a complaint with the FEC and there are employee messages talking about how they have to ban Jones to stop Trump, then the tech companies could have a situation on their hands.

[deleted]

Re: YouTube Bans Alex Jones, Following Facebook's and Apple's Lead

#76

Post by nwsm » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 10:12 PM UTC

cartercole wrote: post #57

free speech is dead

"free speech entitles you to saying what you want, not to a microphone"

Re: YouTube Bans Alex Jones, Following Facebook's and Apple's Lead

#77

Post by chias » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 10:14 PM UTC

tlrobinson wrote: post #47

tchaffee wrote: post #3

In other discussions about this action, I've seen lots of confusion about what the 1st Amendment guarantees. Too many people think it guarantees an outcome: that the government must protect your right to free speech and make sure you have a platform for free speech. When in fact it's almost the opposite: it prevents the government from interfering with free speech, specifically Congress can not pass any laws that int…

I agree people are often confused by what the 1st Amendment guarantees, however government isn't the only threat to free speech, especially on the internet where large platforms yield more power than many smaller countries. I'm not saying private entities should be subject to the 1st Amendment, but we shouldn't give them a free pass to censor just because we happen to agree with their decision this time.

Free speech does not guarantee a platform for your speech, nor does it guarantee that you are able to say the things you want to. Even setting aside "private vs government", it doesn't even guarantee that the government won't censor you. It guarantees that you will not be arrested (by the government providing you with this right) for things that you do say. Even this has a few exceptions, e.g. incitements to violence etc.

Perhaps you feel that it should guarantee more than it does, and perhaps you may be right, but as it stands it does not.

Re: YouTube Bans Alex Jones, Following Facebook's and Apple's Lead

#78

Post by whatyoucantsay » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 10:14 PM UTC

mozumder wrote: post #49

Tomminn wrote: post #12

From Wikipedia: "The InfoWars website receives approximately 10 million monthly visits, making it more visited than some mainstream news websites such as The Economist and Newsweek." This bothers me. Say what you like about his content, but it is not fringe. He is the preferred "thinker" of a significant fraction of the population. If you think the solution is to deplatform him, you're thinking about the problem wron…

You're making the mistake of thinking that Alex Jones and his followers are rational and good-faith actors - a pre-requisite for debate. The best thing to do is just silence their voices; no ifs, ands, or buts. Remember, these people are against the idea of democracy.

> The best thing to do is just silence their voices, no ifs, ands or buts.

> Remember, these people are against the idea of democracy.

Oh, the irony of following the one sentence with the other.

Re: YouTube Bans Alex Jones, Following Facebook's and Apple's Lead

#79

Post by rurounijones » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 10:14 PM UTC

joering2 wrote: post #59

sykhic wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Say what you like about his content, but it is not fringe. This is a man spouting off that there is evidence that Michelle Obama is a man [1]. If that's not a fringe idea I'd like to know what you think one is. To me a fringe idea is one that is so obviously wrong that it is not worth considering its merits. Doubtless there are many fools willing to consider the 'facts' surrounding Michelle Obama's gender but they ar…

Okay I feed the troll. So how much of the proof we got that Michelle Obama IS actually a women? Her look? Many transgander look much more womanish than she does. Same sex marriage? Could be? Have you seen her birth certificate (original, NOT the copy) that you can genuinely say she is a female? Yes I know she has the kids... okay so let me see their DNA test that actually they belong to Michelle as a parent. Exactly;…

EDIT: dlp211 made the more succint point https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17702276

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Donald Trump is a woman. By your definition this statement is not enough to make me a loon. Therefore...

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> So how much of the proof we got that Donald Trump IS actually a man? His look? Many transgander look much more male than he does. Same sex marriage? Could be? Have you seen his birth certificate (original, NOT the copy) that you can genuinely say he is a male? Yes I know he has the kids... okay so let me see his DNA test that actually they belong to Donald. as a parent. Exactly; you have none.

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Are you suggesting that the above information should be provided to debunk me? (I mean, after all this is the President I am talking about rather than the First lady which means the fact he is secretly a woman is much more important!)

Re: YouTube Bans Alex Jones, Following Facebook's and Apple's Lead

#80

Post by gamblor956 » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 10:15 PM UTC

dunpeal wrote: post #74

tryitnow wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's about ideas, I'm not sure where you're getting that from. The article explicitly says he's banned because of TOS violations. The article is not clear about what those are, but I assume they fall under hate speech and harassment. Specifically, I am guessing this has something to do with Jones taking legal actions against parents whose child was murdered. I don't think this has anything to do with hi…

> The article explicitly says he's banned because of TOS violations. The article is not clear about what those are, but I assume they fall under hate speech and harassment. Not at all a fan of Mr Jones (the little I've seen makes him seem like a garden variety nutcase peddling inane conspiracy theories), but aren't we just a little bit concerned when someone is banned on the same day by all the major internet content…

Alex Jones has openly advocated for the murder of multiple people, including both our last president and his would-be party successor. He has openly incited violent acts against an innocent business, whilst also slandering their character and reputation, for profit. He has accused parents of murdered children of making it up, for profit. He hasn't just "said things", he's committed acts which have had resulted in significant harm to others.

There's a very big difference between a blowhard who just says things and a blowhard who tries to have people killed. I really hope you can see that.