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what did I expect from HN anyway except purging non-liberal ideas with their downvoting SS force?
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YouTube Bans Alex Jones, Following Facebook's and Apple's Lead
41–50 of 191 posts
Re: YouTube Bans Alex Jones, Following Facebook's and Apple's Lead
#42I don't necessarily like this action. People are quick to point out that FB and Youtube are private entities and such but the reality is that they've become so ubiquitous in our lives that if they start censorship based on the company's preferred politics, beliefs, etc. than it will have an effect on all of us. Can mobile apps (like WhatsApp) inspect messages and decide to boot users if they're saying things that are…
Same here. I don't agree with anything he says, but banning him from these platforms sets a bad precedent. The way to fight ignorance is with education.
If anything, this will enforce their persecution complex. Now Alex Jones will say, "See? Big media doesn't want you to know the things I'm telling you." And he'll be right.
Re: YouTube Bans Alex Jones, Following Facebook's and Apple's Lead
#43I don't necessarily like this action. People are quick to point out that FB and Youtube are private entities and such but the reality is that they've become so ubiquitous in our lives that if they start censorship based on the company's preferred politics, beliefs, etc. than it will have an effect on all of us. Can mobile apps (like WhatsApp) inspect messages and decide to boot users if they're saying things that are…
Wasn't Google Docs doing that?
Re: YouTube Bans Alex Jones, Following Facebook's and Apple's Lead
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
So your saying you would want Jones' demagoguery to be mainstream?
I think the best scenario would be for people to see en masse that his predictions amount to nothing. Some people will never catch on but many will. Over time this will discredit his movement.
Unfortunately, he's been pretty well known for well over a decade, and he's just grown significantly in popularity in that time.
Re: YouTube Bans Alex Jones, Following Facebook's and Apple's Lead
#45In other discussions about this action, I've seen lots of confusion about what the 1st Amendment guarantees. Too many people think it guarantees an outcome: that the government must protect your right to free speech and make sure you have a platform for free speech. When in fact it's almost the opposite: it prevents the government from interfering with free speech, specifically Congress can not pass any laws that int…
There is something else to keep in mind which is that the government can evade the 1st amendment by pressuring companies to take action against speech it doesn’t like. “Hostile environment” laws around workplace conduct are a good example of this; the strict interpretation of the first amendment might not allow the government to directly regulate such speech by employees, but the threat of EEOC lawsuits can compel co…
There is something else to keep in mind which is that the government can evade the 1st amendment by pressuring companies to take action against speech it doesn’t like.
No, what you have described is a free speech violation and US courts have already addressed this point many times.
And you clearly misunderstand why hostile environment laws have survived First Amendment lawsuits. The government cannot interfere with the content of what someone says. But saying (or doing) something isn't just a form of communication--it can also be an act with non-communicative results. The government can regulate behavior, so long as it is agnostic to the communicative content accompanying that behavior.
Re: YouTube Bans Alex Jones, Following Facebook's and Apple's Lead
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Raise his platform. Discuss him. Debunk his ideas one by one. You use whichever tools appeal to you" You are assuming this would actually have an effect. Given recent history I am pretty sure people would A) Not see your debunking because it isn't in their little echo chamber of targeted fitlered online news and content. B) Wouldn't believe you or critically think about any debunking anyway. There is a reddit bot th…
If you can't persuade his base, then I guess you're not the person whose job it is to persuade his base. Be patient. One will come.
Wait patiently for the "chosen one" to come, while he continues to grow his fanbase, spread misinformation, participates in fear mongering, and is praised by the president of the United States? Yes, sure, great plan.
We can also have a grand old time debunking each and every single one of the crackpot theories that come out of the show, which surprisingly nobody has ever tried before!
Re: YouTube Bans Alex Jones, Following Facebook's and Apple's Lead
#47In other discussions about this action, I've seen lots of confusion about what the 1st Amendment guarantees. Too many people think it guarantees an outcome: that the government must protect your right to free speech and make sure you have a platform for free speech. When in fact it's almost the opposite: it prevents the government from interfering with free speech, specifically Congress can not pass any laws that int…
I agree people are often confused by what the 1st Amendment guarantees, however government isn't the only threat to free speech, especially on the internet where large platforms yield more power than many smaller countries.
I'm not saying private entities should be subject to the 1st Amendment, but we shouldn't give them a free pass to censor just because we happen to agree with their decision this time.
Re: YouTube Bans Alex Jones, Following Facebook's and Apple's Lead
#48I don't necessarily like this action. People are quick to point out that FB and Youtube are private entities and such but the reality is that they've become so ubiquitous in our lives that if they start censorship based on the company's preferred politics, beliefs, etc. than it will have an effect on all of us. Can mobile apps (like WhatsApp) inspect messages and decide to boot users if they're saying things that are…
There is a lot of talk in Washington about regulation of these industries for this very reason. TV and Newspapers are responsible for their content and as such can say who they do and do not put in their publications. The internet companies were given safe harbor because they claimed to be "neutral". Not they are not and as such should be regulated like their competition.
Without safe harbor they never would have been able to grow like they did, but they had remain neutral. Now that they aren't it's time to subject them to the regulations TV, Newspapers etc have... and watch their profitability decline.
Re: YouTube Bans Alex Jones, Following Facebook's and Apple's Lead
#49From Wikipedia: "The InfoWars website receives approximately 10 million monthly visits, making it more visited than some mainstream news websites such as The Economist and Newsweek." This bothers me. Say what you like about his content, but it is not fringe. He is the preferred "thinker" of a significant fraction of the population. If you think the solution is to deplatform him, you're thinking about the problem wron…
You're making the mistake of thinking that Alex Jones and his followers are rational and good-faith actors - a pre-requisite for debate.
The best thing to do is just silence their voices; no ifs, ands, or buts.
Remember, these people are against the idea of democracy.
Re: YouTube Bans Alex Jones, Following Facebook's and Apple's Lead
#50From Wikipedia: "The InfoWars website receives approximately 10 million monthly visits, making it more visited than some mainstream news websites such as The Economist and Newsweek." This bothers me. Say what you like about his content, but it is not fringe. He is the preferred "thinker" of a significant fraction of the population. If you think the solution is to deplatform him, you're thinking about the problem wron…
You are examining the world as a "marketplace of ideas", which is a good first order approximation to how the world works, but people like Alex Jones are market failures in the Market of ideas. Supporters of his are not using information to make rationally informed decisions, they are making post-hoc justifications for their pre-determined belief set that broadly includes a lot of hate.