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The world is losing the war against climate change

economist.com

271–280 of 325 posts

Re: The world is losing the war against climate change

#271
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't help but think that picking apart a magazine's headline is a huge distraction from an important issue, but I also can't help myself in pointing out how off the mark you with such a superficial observation. As far as global poverty is concerned, between 1990-2013 more than a billion people were lifted out of poverty according to the World Bank. I'm sure you can point to local and anecdotal evidence that does n…

A billion people consuming more is surely bad for climate change though, no? Millions of people pouring into 1st world countries and consuming more is surely bad for climate change.

> A billion people consuming more is surely bad for climate change though, no?

Let me ask you a question: How do you incorporate the concept of efficiency when you talk about wealth? Is wealth and not being impoverished defined by how much you can consume?

I'd argue that the history of technology shows us that we tend to value things that provide more value using fewer resources over a the long term. Most wealth is derived from extracting more value from the same resources and not simple resource consumption.

Let's take light for example. There was an article written by Tim Harford discussed the economic history of producing light and how price per lumen has dropped by a factor of 500,000. https://www.bbc.com/news/business-38650976

Obviously, not all consumables can enjoy those tremendous gains in efficiencies, but there are technologies today whose price/performance is improving at a rate far faster than inflation. That's what we should invest in and accelerate.

In my lifetime, I've watched the cell phone and laptop replace the need to buy dozens of other things, not just in the home, but in the office too. Cheap/viable/comfortable augmented reality will only push this trend further.

A billion people consuming more natural resources, non-renewable resources and carbon emitting resources at the levels we consume them would be bad for our environment.

A billion people having access to cheap/free sources of energy, a quality education, an inexpensive digital infrastructure and devices, and knowing how to use their land efficiently is magnitudes better than a billion people simply living in poverty. Poverty isn't cheap, nor is it good for the environment, especially if it leads to wars destroying wealth and raping natural resources.

My hope is the markets in developing countries will be a huge opportunity for producers of efficient technology, providing those technologies a space where they can incubate until their quality begins to match their less-than-efficient competition. In some circumstances, this is true today.

Re: The world is losing the war against climate change

#272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is indeed what it seems like. We need a 10x improvement in this space. That can only happen with carbon capture and ability to regulate CO2 in the atmosphere. Not "planting trees", for God's sake. The whole conversation around emissions and the massive politicization of this is disappointing. Emissions reduction doesn't seem to do much. We need a Manhattan project to produce carbon and weather manipulation techn…

we have the technology already: the cyanobacteria which produced the oxygen that ultimately became the earth's atmosphere. they're even better than trees because they're easier to multiplex and they don't catch on fire. all you need is clean-ish seawater. i even drew up a few designs myself a few months ago. what we lack is the will to put the plans we know will work into action.

I want to learn more about these cyanobacteria:

Are there extensively measured curves of carbon uptake rate as a function of light intensity? For each curve draw the steepest line through the origin, touching the curve, the corresponding intensity is the ideal intensity, and the cyanbacteria type with the best carbon uptake rate per intensity should be selected.

Then a single solar panel roof could power multiple "floors" of these cyanobacteria?

Re: The world is losing the war against climate change

#273

If you look at global power sector emissions from 1998 to 2018, you'll see that while we have dramatically improved upon the energy intensity (energy/capita) and even are making improvements on carbon intensity (carbon/capita), but the sad reality is this: we are still using around 35% coal power in 2018, the same as we did in 1998. And the power sector is the easiest sector to decarbonize, by the way. If you look at…

I've been looking into carbon capture recently because it's going to be vital to slowing down the warming (and buying us another 50 years for the transition). What surprised me is that I can cover double my two-car-owning European family's carbon footprint via planting trees in the UK at an annual cost of around $400. It'll cost half that to do the same in a developing country. We need a global carbon tax and we need…

Is there some sort of service that I can pay to have this done? That's not an unreasonable amount of money to spend for that.

Re: The world is losing the war against climate change

#274
post #56
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The uncomfortable reality is that 7 billion people can’t all live like Americans (or Europeans). Extracting the resources necessary for everyone to live like Americans would be very bad for the environment. The effective action is to greatly reduce the number of births worldwide. It seems to me all other options are not effective.

They very likely can, but it would require a massive program of nuclear power plant building. This is unacceptable to environmentalists, who prefer to pretend that people will voluntarily reduce their quality of life.

I just read that the warmer oceans are making it hard to cool nuclear plants.

Re: The world is losing the war against climate change

#275
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been looking into carbon capture recently because it's going to be vital to slowing down the warming (and buying us another 50 years for the transition). What surprised me is that I can cover double my two-car-owning European family's carbon footprint via planting trees in the UK at an annual cost of around $400. It'll cost half that to do the same in a developing country. We need a global carbon tax and we need…

>What surprised me is that I can cover double my two-car-owning European family's carbon footprint via planting trees in the UK at an annual cost of around $400. It'll cost half that to do the same in a developing country. Then what happens when the trees are fully grown? Processing them for industry would just reintroduce the carbon back into the environment. Letting them stay in the forest is nice, but you would qu…

> There needs to be some sort of way to bury the biomass in order to put that carbon out of the atmosphere for good.

Biochar would be suitable [1]. However, wood is probably not the best feedstock, due to its slow growth compared to other plants.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biochar

Re: The world is losing the war against climate change

#276
post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you expect the common person to change their habits when government abs industry aren't changing theirs? It won't make a difference what I do personally. I could fly on a jet nonstop for the rest of my life and it will make little difference. Government could pass a law to reduce carbon output tomorrow and it would make a difference. Why should us regular people be uncomfortable when we're fucked anyway bec…

Well, it certainly would signal something the day these government leaders stop flying private jet planes to climate conferences or even start having video conferences. That should help. History has a number of examples of how far people will go if their leaders go first. But as long as leaders say one thing and do something completely different? I say no wonder uneducated people don't buy it. Note: this is not to be…

The leaders aren't even going to these conferences. They deny climate change is even happening. With leadership like that, I certainly won't be making any sacrifices.

Re: The world is losing the war against climate change

#277
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was actually a very clever paper on nano materials which, instead of emitting IR on the blackbody spectrum, emit it in a band the atmosphere is transparent to. Reversing the greenhouse at ground level.

Oh huh, that's interesting... So we could just lay down large sheets of that material on a desert or something?

Or cover all non- solar generating roofs with it, and all roads...

Re: The world is losing the war against climate change

#278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought this was pretty interesting. So I looked up how many trees there are per person: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/20... The US has 716 per person. Sadly, it looks like China and India are the worst culprits: "Brazil had 301 billion trees (1,494 per person), Canada 318 billion (8,953 per person), and China 139 billion (102 trees per person). Among highly populous countries, India (po…

Yeah I don't think China or India are catching up any time soon. They're extremely arid regions. China even has a program in place to plant trees along the Gobi dessert to stop it's expansion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-North_Shelter_Forest_Pro... . That will help with the number (closer to 200 tree/person) since they plan to plant 100 billion trees by 2050 http://www.theplaidzebra.com/china-is-building-a-gr…

It's actually a clever plan. They will destroy ecosystems on the way so its not _perfect_, but it's feasible and will likely work if they fuccessfully find the right kind of tree to start the forest. Greenland is doing it too[1], with a lot of setbacks, but they are starting to recover (albeit slowly)

[1]https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/10/20/climate/icela...

Re: The world is losing the war against climate change

#279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Global warming can only be reversed if we stop all Co2 and methane emissions, and then start net carbon capture to reduce current co2 levels. We do not want to reverse climate change, we want to slow it as much as possible. And there is never a point at which you can meaningfully give up, 5C is better than 6C, 3C is better than 4C. What you’ve posted is just another rationalization for inaction.

> What you’ve posted is just another rationalization for inaction. How so? Seems like they are advocating for even more action than usually discussed because the problem is even more severe than we think.

"The war is unwinnable" is typically a defeatist wording, not a call to action.

Re: The world is losing the war against climate change

#280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Transportation is the largest source of greenhouse gases in the US. https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/fast-facts-transportation-... Not all of that is personal transportation, but a lot of it is. This is not a blip on the graph. I also agree that large polluters need to change, and that we need state action. I was just pointing out that people who seem to believe climate change is a problem rarely make major lifestyl…

Cars are bad but they're a pretty small problem compared to airplanes. A single trip across the Atlantic and back is about equivalent to commuting in a SUV for a year. Per passenger-mile cars and planes use about the same amount of carbon but people tend to take far longer plane trips.

I agree in principle.

But it seems to me that the marginal cost in terms of CO2 emissions is not exactly clear for flying. Whether I fly or not, the planes will fly. My addition to a single plane in terms of the weight is not that significant. It becomes a more murky economic argument. I agree people should not fly, but this is more of a collective action type approach in my view. It takes roughly a plane load of people to make a difference.

In contrast, a driver has much more direct control over the CO2 emissions. The marginal addition of CO2 is much clearer.

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