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The world is losing the war against climate change

economist.com

51–60 of 325 posts

Re: The world is losing the war against climate change

#51
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if future generations will think people were even serious about solving the problem. In this respect the war was lost long ago. The vast majority of people who believe climate change will have large negative consequences make no major changes to their lifestyles. As someone who rides bike for transportation largely to save money and stay in shape (I think climate change is a lost cause), the environmental cr…

A large part of it is that it is a collective action problem. If you want to talk about "effective action"? You're talking about shutting down coal plants, not going after the man or woman on the street. A person needing a car to get to work is, both in real and proportional terms, causing overwhelmingly less damage to the environment than industrial-scale polluters. If everybody who could switch to a bike instead of…

Transportation is the largest source of greenhouse gases in the US.

https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/fast-facts-transportation-...

Not all of that is personal transportation, but a lot of it is. This is not a blip on the graph.

I also agree that large polluters need to change, and that we need state action. I was just pointing out that people who seem to believe climate change is a problem rarely make major lifestyle changes consistent with their stated beliefs.

Saying this is primarily a collective action problem is passing the buck. It's a convenient excuse for doing nothing. Collective action is much harder than personal action. Ultimately, we need both collective and personal action.

> Calling into question the sincerity of people concerned about climate change but also concerned about actually getting to work on time and not stinking and getting fired because their bosses don't care is just some nasty, uncharitable stuff.

You seem to believe that cycling to work is much more challenging than it actually is. You may be surprised, but no cyclist I know has the problems you've mentioned. Those problems can happen, but they are not that common in my experience.

Yes, the US is a car dependent society, but you can choose where to live and choose your job. Like most people choose where to live based on their driving commute, I choose where to live based on my cycling commute. It is not a long commute, and I arrive on time and usually am not sweaty.

Also, cycling was just an example. It doesn't need to be cycling. Work at home, switch from your gas guzzler, etc.

Re: The world is losing the war against climate change

#52
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if future generations will think people were even serious about solving the problem. In this respect the war was lost long ago. The vast majority of people who believe climate change will have large negative consequences make no major changes to their lifestyles. As someone who rides bike for transportation largely to save money and stay in shape (I think climate change is a lost cause), the environmental cr…

A large part of it is that it is a collective action problem. If you want to talk about "effective action"? You're talking about shutting down coal plants, not going after the man or woman on the street. A person needing a car to get to work is, both in real and proportional terms, causing overwhelmingly less damage to the environment than industrial-scale polluters. If everybody who could switch to a bike instead of…

Good points. I think even if we could muster collective action it would be required on a global scale. Related to this is that in many cases large emitters of green-house gases are largely divorced from the consequences. Ultimately most people around the world will feel some impact but it's not really a problem in the here and now. For example animal husbandry (cattle and possibly sheep) is apparently responsible for emissions of methane which is in theory has a disproportionately larger impact on raising global temperatures...but we'll have a hard time convincing people to stop eating those meats. Especially in parts of the world that are becoming more affluent, have large growing populations and are rather keen on enjoying their share of steak or leg of lamb

Re: The world is losing the war against climate change

#53
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if future generations will think people were even serious about solving the problem. In this respect the war was lost long ago. The vast majority of people who believe climate change will have large negative consequences make no major changes to their lifestyles. As someone who rides bike for transportation largely to save money and stay in shape (I think climate change is a lost cause), the environmental cr…

A large part of it is that it is a collective action problem. If you want to talk about "effective action"? You're talking about shutting down coal plants, not going after the man or woman on the street. A person needing a car to get to work is, both in real and proportional terms, causing overwhelmingly less damage to the environment than industrial-scale polluters. If everybody who could switch to a bike instead of…

A single person in a car is nothing. However all the cars in total are a big deal.

Even a single industrial polluter is nothing. All the cars on the road are worse than the worst single industrial plant.

Re: The world is losing the war against climate change

#54
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if future generations will think people were even serious about solving the problem. In this respect the war was lost long ago. The vast majority of people who believe climate change will have large negative consequences make no major changes to their lifestyles. As someone who rides bike for transportation largely to save money and stay in shape (I think climate change is a lost cause), the environmental cr…

The uncomfortable reality is that 7 billion people can’t all live like Americans (or Europeans). Extracting the resources necessary for everyone to live like Americans would be very bad for the environment. The effective action is to greatly reduce the number of births worldwide. It seems to me all other options are not effective.

> The effective action is to greatly reduce the number of births worldwide. It seems to me all other options are not effective.

Good luck with that ;-)

Re: The world is losing the war against climate change

#55
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is petroleum for chemistry and plastics a GHG source? It seems like the carbon involved stays out of the atmosphere.

"Plastics emit GHG as they degrade": https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/plastics-emit-gre...

According to the last paragraph, the magnitude of the effect is insignificant.

Re: The world is losing the war against climate change

#56
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if future generations will think people were even serious about solving the problem. In this respect the war was lost long ago. The vast majority of people who believe climate change will have large negative consequences make no major changes to their lifestyles. As someone who rides bike for transportation largely to save money and stay in shape (I think climate change is a lost cause), the environmental cr…

The uncomfortable reality is that 7 billion people can’t all live like Americans (or Europeans). Extracting the resources necessary for everyone to live like Americans would be very bad for the environment. The effective action is to greatly reduce the number of births worldwide. It seems to me all other options are not effective.

They very likely can, but it would require a massive program of nuclear power plant building. This is unacceptable to environmentalists, who prefer to pretend that people will voluntarily reduce their quality of life.

Re: The world is losing the war against climate change

#57

is there a proof somewhere that these wild fires are linked to climate change? For example the really bad one in Greece happened because someone decided to burn some wood. (I'm convinced that climate change is real and we're responsible)

It will be 20 years before we have hard scientific proof. You know full well that this kind of data is slow to gather and study and draw conclusions from it.

Re: The world is losing the war against climate change

#58
post #21
post #16

We should switch to a carbon/anti pollution based crypto currency that is mined in a earth friendly way. All goods and transports and all other pollution is such a system should be accounted for. As it now with the current economic system it is too easy to offset the cost on somebody else. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

solar mining in space and beaming the results to earth https://twitter.com/peterktodd/status/897631806899597312

I think orbital solar collection is interesting, but I'm not sure why it needs to be used to mine BitCoin: can't we just use the energy to power a microwave beam to collectors on the surface? Not sure what the economics of that is vs. the cost of launching a geostationary satellite though.

Re: The world is losing the war against climate change

#59
post #33

"War against" ("War on") seems to mean it is a never-ending boondoggle that, at best, wastes a bunch of resources. Is there any example of these "wars" being a success? The three that come to mind are: War on drugs: fail War on cancer: fail War on poverty: fail Why is the economist trying to link climate change to this?

War on cancer has been...not completely a fail? Certainly made harder by profiteering, but, y'know.

Also, I find "War on poverty" hilarious. Like a country saying it's "making crime illegal".

Re: The world is losing the war against climate change

#60
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The uncomfortable reality is that 7 billion people can’t all live like Americans (or Europeans). Extracting the resources necessary for everyone to live like Americans would be very bad for the environment. The effective action is to greatly reduce the number of births worldwide. It seems to me all other options are not effective.

> The effective action is to greatly reduce the number of births worldwide. It seems to me all other options are not effective. Good luck with that ;-)

Things like this make me feel that climate change is a lost cause.
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