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Why Zynga's Success Makes Game Designers Gloomy

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Re: Why Zynga's Success Makes Game Designers Gloomy

#11

Post by helium »

JoachimSchipper wrote: post #3
wccrawford wrote: post #2

Let me fix that for them: "We're afraid because we make big-budget games, and Zynga has made people pay for low-budget games." I've thought for quite some time that game budgets in the millions are getting out of control. (And movies, too, for that matter.) Good controls, decent visuals and audio, and great plot and/or mechanics. That's what makes the best games. Big-budget games ramp up the visuals and skimp on the…

Not all of them make big-budget games - at least, "puzzle pirates" doesn't scream high-end 3D gameplay to me. Also, there's a distinction between fun and addictive. Finally, I'm not sure they are actually losing all that many sales - how many people playing Farmville would have paid for Neverwinter Nights?

how many people playing Farmville would have paid for Neverwinter Nights?

You just stumbled onto the real issue right there. All these people have been making amazing games, but they all appeal to the gamer market. Zygna has found out how to reach the the traditional non-gamer. It might be a hard pill to swallow, but the truth is that games like Farmville appeal to the majority of people who would never really pay for games before.

Re: Why Zynga's Success Makes Game Designers Gloomy

#12

Post by khafra »

wccrawford wrote: post #2

Let me fix that for them: "We're afraid because we make big-budget games, and Zynga has made people pay for low-budget games." I've thought for quite some time that game budgets in the millions are getting out of control. (And movies, too, for that matter.) Good controls, decent visuals and audio, and great plot and/or mechanics. That's what makes the best games. Big-budget games ramp up the visuals and skimp on the…

I doubt many people actually enjoy Zynga's products that much. They just can't stop playing. There's a difference between liking and wanting, and Zynga games are optimized for the latter.

Re: Why Zynga's Success Makes Game Designers Gloomy

#14

Post by Maro »

wccrawford wrote: post #2

Let me fix that for them: "We're afraid because we make big-budget games, and Zynga has made people pay for low-budget games." I've thought for quite some time that game budgets in the millions are getting out of control. (And movies, too, for that matter.) Good controls, decent visuals and audio, and great plot and/or mechanics. That's what makes the best games. Big-budget games ramp up the visuals and skimp on the…

You clearly have not played Starcraft 2 or (Battlefield: Bad Company 2).

SC2 is such a finely tuned piece of gaming, I spend 30 minutes a day just watching replays at http://youtube.com/hdstarcraft. It beats watching most TV series. It's so good, I bought the game just to support Blizzard, even though I mostly just watch others play.

Re: Why Zynga's Success Makes Game Designers Gloomy

#15

Post by sjsivak »

BenSS wrote: post #6

Zynga depresses them because they don't make games to be fun, amuse, educate, or tell a story. It's all about the addiction and funneling factor to get users to pay. The 'normal' rules for app developers also do not apply, the founder even admitted to abusing every FB feature possible to grow.

You are just not the target audience. If Zynga games were not fun to everyone, no one would play them. Just because you do not find them amusing does not make them bad games.

I don't like the My Little Pony games aimed at 6 year old girls, but I won't say they are bad because I know I am not a 6 year old girl.

Re: Why Zynga's Success Makes Game Designers Gloomy

#16

Post by yesimahuman »

BenSS wrote: post #6

Zynga depresses them because they don't make games to be fun, amuse, educate, or tell a story. It's all about the addiction and funneling factor to get users to pay. The 'normal' rules for app developers also do not apply, the founder even admitted to abusing every FB feature possible to grow.

I think it's unfounded. Perhaps these players were never going to play Assasin's Creed or Halo. Now they have games that they enjoy. The market has just gotten bigger.

Re: Why Zynga's Success Makes Game Designers Gloomy

#17

Post by jdk »

So I used to be a game designer in the very hardcore PC MMO world. I now work as a Lead Game Designer at Zynga. You know what? I'm not gloomy in the slightest. If I stayed in the MMO space, I'd be making the same games that I'd been making for the past 10 years, chasing WoW because that's where publishers want to throw their money. Facebook games on the other hand offered a different audience and a different set of rules to design against. It's MORE interesting work, to be honest. The are new and interesting challenges in terms of both gameplay and scale ("raid encounters" for 20? try upping that a few orders of magnitude!)

The whole "Oh god, Zynga is morally and creatively bankrupt" line is at least 6 months old at this point (and for a company that's only 3 years old, that's a pretty long time). Look at the recent acquisitions and releases... FrontierVille was made by Brian Reynolds's team (you know Civ 2, Alpha Centauri, and Rise of Nations, right? Yeah, that Brian Reynolds.) and is by all accounts quite successful. Zynga just bought Bonfire (ex-Ensemble, responsible for Age of Empires and Halo Wars). "Good" (more interesting, fun, higher production values, etc) games are slowly cropping up on Facebook, and more people on getting on board, not just because it's a perceived money train, but because it actually allows you to do something new as a designer.

For the first time in 12 years, my mother understands and enjoys the kinds of games I make. My aunts hassle me to add particular items to my game. Granted, I still haven't figured out a way to tell people what I do without them narrowing their eyes at me... (Previous: "You work on video games, huh? Like Grand Theft Auto, that game is so violent and bad for society!" Now: "You work on FarmVille!? I [love|hate] that game!")

Incidentally, two of the people quoted (Jesse Schell and Daniel James) both make very similar social games on Facebook.

Re: Why Zynga's Success Makes Game Designers Gloomy

#18

Post by notahacker »

sjsivak wrote: post #15
BenSS wrote: post #6

Zynga depresses them because they don't make games to be fun, amuse, educate, or tell a story. It's all about the addiction and funneling factor to get users to pay. The 'normal' rules for app developers also do not apply, the founder even admitted to abusing every FB feature possible to grow.

You are just not the target audience. If Zynga games were not fun to everyone, no one would play them. Just because you do not find them amusing does not make them bad games. I don't like the My Little Pony games aimed at 6 year old girls, but I won't say they are bad because I know I am not a 6 year old girl.

I don't like McDonalds, but I will say it's unhealthy garbage which beats companies that actually care about food only on the strength of its marketing budget...

Re: Why Zynga's Success Makes Game Designers Gloomy

#19

Post by jlgbecom »

Game developers hate Zynga for the same reason that real comedians hate Dane Cook: Uninspired, unoriginal (borderline theft), and a dilution of the craft.

Sure, you could chalk it up to jealousy of success, but the reality is that there are people out there who are in it for more than money, and sometimes it hurts on a visceral level to see mediocrity succeed wildly.

Re: Why Zynga's Success Makes Game Designers Gloomy

#20

Post by chops »

In Zynga games, you’re just trying to get more stuff. You’re caught up in this junkie behavior, and you have to keep upping the dose. That has me terrified.

This exactly is what playing most MMO games is all about: the grind for stuff. I don't see a reason this should be considered that threatening to anything. The draw of MMO Games is the sense of accomplishment (next level, next piece of gear), and in any games now that've implemented achievements (Modern Warfare 2, Left 4 Dead, Quake Live, Starcraft 2 the list goes on forever) it's the same feeling of accomplishment when you get your 500th midair knife kill.

That's just the direction games are going. Give the user a a feeling of accomplishment.

I don't see anything warranting a gloomy outlook on games because of farmville, especially, since I don't see a huge overlap in target markets.

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