France bans smartphone use in schools • Hacker News Board

Re: France bans smartphone use in schools

#131

Post by skate22 » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 7:22 PM UTC

privacypoller wrote: post #91

skate22 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In college if i was goofing off on my phone during lecture I would likely pay for it on an exam. You could try silently writing down which days you saw a student on their phone & which days you taught the specific subject material. Then when students get it wrong on a test that you grade you can add a comment along the lines of "this was covered on day X when you were on your phone" You would also then have a nice re…

this is the same problem with photo radar speeding tickets. We know that for learning immediate correction is super-important, so just like getting a ticket in the mail several weeks after speeding, a note after you fail a test will just piss off the receiver and there's no long term training effect. also, don't you think teachers have better things to do with their extremely limited instruction time than police and…

They already are policing it. Stopping class to argue with some kid is much more disruptive than writing down a name

Re: France bans smartphone use in schools

#132

Post by peterwwillis » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 7:23 PM UTC

gonehome wrote: post #113

Pulcinella wrote: post #43

My thoughts as a High School teacher: I have tried[1] to allow students to have their phones, teach them to use their phones responsibly, etc. It doesn’t work. They are banned in my class. I’m just a single teacher with basically no budget. I can’t compete with giant corporations that spend millions on design, UX, UI, etc. [1] Also, technically trying to teach kids to use their phones responsibly (or even generically…

When I was a student I didn't care about the ban in class - seemed reasonable to me and generally fair. The rules that bothered me were the ones I thought were unfair or didn't make sense - not being able to use the phone in the hallway or between classes to call a parent/organize something later in the day. We had teachers that would grab it out of your hand and take it from you. Our school also had an 'upstairway'…

> not being able to use the phone in the hallway or between classes

I was confused about some of these, like a teacher literally posted at the bathroom door and would only let X kids in at a time, and time them. Turns out it's because a few bad kids take advantage and do stupid shit, so they have to impose draconian policies.

The 'no phone in hallway' thing was probably half to get kids into class on time, and half to stop drug deals, gang fights and sexting. This goes on in "nice" schools.

Re: France bans smartphone use in schools

#133

Post by skate22 » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 7:23 PM UTC

paulddraper wrote: post #93

skate22 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In college if i was goofing off on my phone during lecture I would likely pay for it on an exam. You could try silently writing down which days you saw a student on their phone & which days you taught the specific subject material. Then when students get it wrong on a test that you grade you can add a comment along the lines of "this was covered on day X when you were on your phone" You would also then have a nice re…

> the parents can do the enforcing Why should the parents do the enforcing? If I goof off and get bad grades I would likely pay for it in my future career opportunities. /s

The point was that the teacher shouldn't have to do it.

Re: France bans smartphone use in schools

#134

Post by culot » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 7:28 PM UTC

weliketocode wrote: post #51

Like much of education policy, this seems to help some at the expense of harming others. For the intelligent & motivated, there will be unnecessary boredom during downtime/study hall, potential hatred for learning/school, and other negative effects. For the lackluster students, this policy will help some pay attention to class, learn lessons, and complete work. In general, however, I'd have to say I'm against it. Any…

"ignorance of new technologies"

Smartphone addiction is a major problem. Limiting its destructive grip during school so that kids can be prepared for the real world and life in general is a good thing. It's not ignorance of technology that drives these bans, but a profound understanding of its effects on kids.

Re: France bans smartphone use in schools

#135

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 7:33 PM UTC

noobermin wrote: post #90

I will be supportive of this when adults decide to ban cellphones in cars when in the driver's seat. Studies show driver's even with handless systems are significantly more likely to get into car crashes. If you support curtailing young people's cell phone use but don't support curtailing the use by adults which has proven to lead to traffic fatalities I'd have to ask you why.

[deleted]

Re: France bans smartphone use in schools

#136

Post by waterhouse » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 7:43 PM UTC

privacypoller wrote: post #91

skate22 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In college if i was goofing off on my phone during lecture I would likely pay for it on an exam. You could try silently writing down which days you saw a student on their phone & which days you taught the specific subject material. Then when students get it wrong on a test that you grade you can add a comment along the lines of "this was covered on day X when you were on your phone" You would also then have a nice re…

this is the same problem with photo radar speeding tickets. We know that for learning immediate correction is super-important, so just like getting a ticket in the mail several weeks after speeding, a note after you fail a test will just piss off the receiver and there's no long term training effect. also, don't you think teachers have better things to do with their extremely limited instruction time than police and…

I'm not familiar with exactly what teachers do these days, but I feel like it's a stereotypical teacher behavior to notice students who look like they're not paying attention—in whatever way, be it staring into space, reading an unrelated book, etc.—and call on the student and ask them to explain what they were just talking about. I'm not sure whether that's a good or bad practice, but it does fit the bill of "immediate correction" that could straightforwardly be applied to students looking at a phone.

Re: France bans smartphone use in schools

#137

Post by waterhouse » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 7:52 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #102

pwaivers wrote: post #4

> “In reality, the ban has already been made. I don’t know a single teacher in this country that allows the use of phones in class.” Not allowing kids to use smartphones during class is a huge difference than not allowing them at all in school. Cell phones are huge part of people's lives, whether they like it or not.

> Not allowing kids to use smartphones during class is a huge difference than not allowing them at all in school Learning how to put down their phones while socializing and working will probably be more valuable to these students, in the long run, than scoring a few extra minutes of Instagram. It isn't like they can't use their phones once off campus.

> Learning how to put down their phones while socializing and working

How many years do kids spend in school? And how long do you think it takes to learn how to do that? Surely not more than one year.

Arguments of the form "They need to learn how to behave in later life, therefore they should spend 12 years behaving that way" are wrong. (The conclusion may be correct, but the reasoning is not.) Given that it takes only x years to learn that, the question is whether it's worth having them behave that way in the remaining 12-x years.

Re: France bans smartphone use in schools

#138

Post by tk75x » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 7:59 PM UTC

Yoric wrote: post #125

yardie wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess this is different for private and religious schools. Our son's catholic school had no problem confiscating phones, 3DS's, or card games. To take them home them and the parent would need to pick it up from the headmaster's office.

Hum. Don't tell your kid, but I don't think that's legal :)

In a private school where the policy is clearly stated and the parents signed their agreement, this is a perfectly legal.

Re: France bans smartphone use in schools

#139

Post by Retric » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 8:06 PM UTC

isoskeles wrote: post #87

skate22 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In college if i was goofing off on my phone during lecture I would likely pay for it on an exam. You could try silently writing down which days you saw a student on their phone & which days you taught the specific subject material. Then when students get it wrong on a test that you grade you can add a comment along the lines of "this was covered on day X when you were on your phone" You would also then have a nice re…

This is petty and time-consuming.

Being petty and being effective are often related as a teacher.

Cramming for tests has poor long term retention. So, even if it seems like a final should be enough to demonstrate competency it's generally a poor idea to upgrade a grade based on a final.

Re: France bans smartphone use in schools

#140

Post by gonehome » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 8:16 PM UTC

peterwwillis wrote: post #132

gonehome wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was a student I didn't care about the ban in class - seemed reasonable to me and generally fair. The rules that bothered me were the ones I thought were unfair or didn't make sense - not being able to use the phone in the hallway or between classes to call a parent/organize something later in the day. We had teachers that would grab it out of your hand and take it from you. Our school also had an 'upstairway'…

> not being able to use the phone in the hallway or between classes I was confused about some of these, like a teacher literally posted at the bathroom door and would only let X kids in at a time, and time them. Turns out it's because a few bad kids take advantage and do stupid shit, so they have to impose draconian policies. The 'no phone in hallway' thing was probably half to get kids into class on time, and half t…

I suspect you're right that they had some reason behind it they never discussed with us (and couldn't provide when asked), but it's not very effective (drug deals and sexting still happen anyway) - meanwhile I felt like they had no respect for us and so I had little for them as a result.

I think to some extent people rise to the standard expected of them - if you don't respect kids at all and have draconian rules that prevent them from doing basic things they'll just dismiss you as an obstacle.