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As Google Maps Renames Neighborhoods, Residents Fume

nytimes.com

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Re: As Google Maps Renames Neighborhoods, Residents Fume

#121

Post by ghaff »

wlesieutre wrote: post #91
huebnerob wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, the article complains about names 'just being made up' but fails to provide any evidence of that actually happening. Instead, all the other odd names they call out actually originated somewhere in the community, albeit perhaps from esoteric sources. What's more, NYT seems to willfully ignore that place names change and evolve constantly through natural social processes just like these. That Google is indexing…

>Indeed, the article complains about names 'just being made up' Unlike all those other placenames like "South of Market" which were decreed by god when he created San Fransisco :P What they're really getting at is that it was made up by the wrong people. Like anything else that once happened organically among groups of people, you can now wrangle up an advertising budget and push it along. My neighborhood has a "real…

One of the cities I’m most familiar with (Cambridge) has a set of neighborhood names and boundaries that a lot of people would more or less agree with. But they’re by no means canonical and not all the boundaries are especially rigid.

Plus there are plenty of sub-neighborhood names that do get used but don’t really define any meaningful community or other enclave.

Some cities do seem to take a more active role in defining official neighborhoods but many don’t.

Re: As Google Maps Renames Neighborhoods, Residents Fume

#122

Post by dmix »

huebnerob wrote: post #68
antoncohen wrote: post #32

Why is this Google's fault? I walk through The East Cut nearly every day, and I admit I was confused by the rebranding. But it wasn't done by Google. There are people cleaning the sidewalks in East Cut shirts, banners that say East Cut, real estate companies that call it East Cut. It would be a little weird if Google ignored the name. Yes, "The East Cut" is a strange name. But that area as never part of South Beach (…

Indeed, the article complains about names 'just being made up' but fails to provide any evidence of that actually happening. Instead, all the other odd names they call out actually originated somewhere in the community, albeit perhaps from esoteric sources. What's more, NYT seems to willfully ignore that place names change and evolve constantly through natural social processes just like these. That Google is indexing…

Even if it wasn't Google they wouldn't be the first to influence the naming of neighbourhoods. Telephone companies used to have a similar authoritative role:

> Barry F. Hersh, a professor at the Schack Institute of Real Estate at New York University, said online maps were only the latest tool in a long line of technology influencing geography. “The telephone company once decided which neighborhood you were in,” he said.

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/10/nyregion/amateur-mapmaker...

Re: As Google Maps Renames Neighborhoods, Residents Fume

#123

Post by ghaff »

jrockway wrote: post #76

I feel like the issue here is that there simply isn't any data that definitively maps out where neighborhoods are. I have never been certain where neighborhood boundaries are in any city I've lived in. I remember when I lived in Chicago I looked around for an official source and found one from the city... except the districts had no resemblance to what people were calling the neighborhoods. Meanwhile, real estate typ…

I recall a website that tried this for Boston. There was strong agreement on some neighborhood boundaries defined by particular streets. Others were literally all over the map.

Re: As Google Maps Renames Neighborhoods, Residents Fume

#124

Post by httpz »

I've been working in offices a few blocks away from "The East Cut" and I never heard of it. Google's SF office is actually in the East Cut. I wonder how many Google employees there actually heard of it.

Also the area is mostly office buildings. The few residential buildings are mostly high end luxury apartments. I doubt most residents are even aware of the neighborhood nonprofit organization.

Re: As Google Maps Renames Neighborhoods, Residents Fume

#125

Post by nixpulvis »

Rebelgecko wrote: post #119

It's hard to say what makes a neighborhood nickname "real", but when I use Google to search for one of the "neighborhoods" near me and the first results is a forum discussion of "what the hell is in Google maps, and why is it centered in swampland?"... then it's probably not a "real" area

I think there's an important distinction between searching for a "nickname" and showing lines on the map.

Re: As Google Maps Renames Neighborhoods, Residents Fume

#126

Post by adfm »

reaperducer wrote: post #73

I deal with this with one of the web sites I maintain. I think, as noted in the article, that it seems Google sometimes uses names from advertisements as if they are canonical. In my case, the city in question puts out a very specific, very legally defined map of each neighborhood, and has for more than a century. But real estate agents make up names for the neighborhoods, or fudge the boundaries to improve selling p…

You have to wonder if this has anything to do with their Neighborly app. Maps are how we collectively tell our stories and controlling the language used in those stories affects the outcome. Remember when everyone was calling that chunk of SOMA with the shitty overpriced condos the East Cut? What ever happened to all the people that lived there after the crash?

Re: As Google Maps Renames Neighborhoods, Residents Fume

#127

Post by hyperberry »

Google puts far too much stock into the "accuracy" of its Maps data.

Here's my fun story: in order to verify my dad's website with Google's 'My Business' service (now a defunct product?), they had to mail a physical postcard with PIN code to ensure the address was legitimate. Picking the mailing address was hooked into Maps/ Maps data; a "real" address had to be among their existing database of addresses.

Well, my dad lives in a somewhat-rural area outside St. Louis. His street is "Alt Road" -- named after the Alt family, German immigrants who started a large farm in the area 150+ years ago.

Yet Google Maps had the street listed as "Alternate Road". Clearly some data entry person presumed it must be an abbreviation and took liberty to 'correct' the apparent mistake.

So it was literally impossible to have a postcard mailed to his address on Alt Road. I had to have it sent to Alternate Road instead. I recognize, of course, the verification steps taken thereafter will have permanently corroborated what was bad data in first place. Now I'm part of the problem.

I'm guessing Maps will now forever have renamed the street. Should I alert the county to Dad's 'new' mailing address?

Re: As Google Maps Renames Neighborhoods, Residents Fume

#128

Post by sonnyblarney »

mijamo wrote: post #53
DanAndersen wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With that mindset, what makes oceans "natural boundaries" with any meaning? It's all just collections of atoms that humans socially assign meaning to.

"meaning" is always socially assigned (or god's design for those you believe it). But there is a huge difference between natural boundaries and human boundaries: one can be measured and objectively represented. You can measure heights and make a map of the earth with different colors for mountains, oceans etc. It could all be done by a machine without any human intervention, and represents useful physical differences…

Man-made boundaries can be objective, factual, reasonable.

Re: As Google Maps Renames Neighborhoods, Residents Fume

#129

Post by knockingat3am »

dang wrote: post #115
knockingat3am wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And like clockwork, China isn't even singled out, isn't mentioned first, but instantly it's pointed out how there's really nothing particularly bad going on there, for over half a century. Even bending so far to pretend this is a "controversial subject", and as if most controversial subjects didn't mention China at all. The latter is an easily demonstrable falsehood, uttered in the interest of discussion hygiene. You…

We've banned this account for using HN primarily for political battle. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

You are are using your moderator powers for "political battle". Sleep tight is all I can say.

Re: As Google Maps Renames Neighborhoods, Residents Fume

#130

Post by yellowcherry »

singlow wrote: post #97
concam wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you point me to the other articles where the NYT complains that they don't get to make up neighborhood names anymore but Google does?

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/20/opinion/new-york-neighbor... https://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/21/nyregion/procro-sobro-fid...

What I'm noting in these articles is an absence of mentions of Google or newspapers.
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