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What Men and Women Consider Hardcore Gaming Are Not The Same

quanticfoundry.com

31–40 of 56 posts

Re: What Men and Women Consider Hardcore Gaming Are Not The Same

#31
post #17

Ignoring the graphs, curious how much of this is just a response to community. Anecdotes abound, beware. Even as an older (for gaming, anyway) white male, the community in some competitive games is just really unappealing - it basically reminds me of middle school, and I guess I'm not really into that anymore. Lots of things said just to get a reaction (e.g. racial slurs), lots of weird discussions about women, lots…

The community around open source games (not counting assault cube) doesn't seem so bad but I'm not that active in it.

Re: What Men and Women Consider Hardcore Gaming Are Not The Same

#32
post #17

Ignoring the graphs, curious how much of this is just a response to community. Anecdotes abound, beware. Even as an older (for gaming, anyway) white male, the community in some competitive games is just really unappealing - it basically reminds me of middle school, and I guess I'm not really into that anymore. Lots of things said just to get a reaction (e.g. racial slurs), lots of weird discussions about women, lots…

> it basically reminds me of middle school

Many bad actors in competitive online gaming are middle/high schoolers.

Re: What Men and Women Consider Hardcore Gaming Are Not The Same

#33
post #16

Makes me think of my home... my son is a "hardcore gamer", by anyone's definition. He doesn't recognize his mother as a gamer at all, despite her spending 10-20 hours/week gaming. She's mostly doing puzzle games on her iPad, so that's not "real gaming". So there's a fair bit of gender and cultural bias in the very idea of "gamer". I don't play video games, myself, for the same reason I don't shoot heroin directly int…

>despite her spending 10-20 hours/week gaming

Pardon the wall of text here...

I typically spend 40+ hours/week gaming. Literally a 2nd job. However, I don't even consider the time spent gaming in my definition of "hardcore" gamer. There are people who play 80+ hours/week that I would consider "casual" gamers by definition of how they play. They see games mostly as a way to kill time and might identify the activity with being a hobby, but not one they take "seriously" to any extent.

The thing that makes me "hardcore" is the amount of time I don't spend gaming - but learning about the game on a deep level. I typically have 99% of a games' wikipedia memorized. I can tell you nearly anything about any of the games I play off the top of my head. I'll know every mechanic, every bug, why the bugs exist, a summary of the lore. Depending on the genre, I'll know the best places to level at any particular level range, where every single enemy spawns (or whether their spawn is random), the damage output of every weapon in comparison to one another, how certain items scale, the frame data of certain attacks (eg: first hit frame, ending lag, if it has invincible frames, the number of end frames).

Casuals don't care to put in all this extra effort to know the game on a deep, often very mechanical, level. "Intermediate" players will read about it but still don't invest much time to it. "Hardcore" players know a game inside, inside-out, upside-down, mirrored, and can probably run through some levels blindfolded going off their memorization of the game alone.

A casual player can play SSBM for 30 hours a week without ever learning how to wavedash, L-cancel, chaingrab, wobble, (S)DI, amsa tech, moonwalk, shffl, platform cancel, slide cancel, soft B-reverse, or ledge stall. There is also a good chance they think I made up half of those words or just said some random things. They also don't tend to keep up with any metagaming - or if they do - they're never on the forefront of innovation for the metagame, but only ever (poorly) copying what they see pro players do without understanding why the professional player made their decisions. The casual player's mechanical knowledge about the game is lacking too much to effectively innovate because they don't really understand how the game interacts with itself.

My casual League of Legends coworkers' are all ranked Bronze/Silver because ranking in that game is almost entirely a measure of knowledge and only a very small part of it is skill - they all play the game far more than I do but I understand the game better than them and ranked among the top 1% of players (Plat1/Diamond5 range) when I played. They never cared to learn about the game itself - so never improved as players. Even after months and months of playing with them they never got any better at the game, even as their general "skill level" (ability to execute) was increasing over time. Certain games also lack depth - and are the games I consider targeted towards casual players. Most of those are mobile games like Angry Bird, puzzle games (eg: 2048, Candy Crush), or arcade-like games like Pacman, Asteroids.

So while I don't consider playing puzzle games on an iPad "not real gaming" it is also very much a sign of "casual gaming" - it's a time killing activity. Without knowing your wife, I have my doubts that she spends a significant time metagaming her puzzle games or researching the best way to solve the puzzles. This is partly because that would be counter-productive to a good puzzle and partly because there often isn't enough depth to a puzzle game to research about it.

Re: What Men and Women Consider Hardcore Gaming Are Not The Same

#34
The female logic I can follow here: Once you play hardcore, i.e. more intense, just having a story will get boring soon. So they add other competencies.

It's a little confusing for me, why just playing skill competition shouldn't get boring for men as well. Adding story based components for a more indepth experience would also sound reasonable for me.

So I wonder if self-assessment is really a good way to analyse the behaviour here. It might be that men don't mention that they care about community/story as much, while actually they do as well when they heavily invest time and energy into a single game.

Re: What Men and Women Consider Hardcore Gaming Are Not The Same

#35
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do offer an "Age Report" which costs $2499: https://quanticfoundry.com/age-report/ Here's a sample chart showing how "Competition" ranks by age: https://quanticfoundry.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Compet...

I honestly thought you were joking. Their data presentation wasn't good, who would pay this???

MBAs.

Re: What Men and Women Consider Hardcore Gaming Are Not The Same

#36
post #17

Ignoring the graphs, curious how much of this is just a response to community. Anecdotes abound, beware. Even as an older (for gaming, anyway) white male, the community in some competitive games is just really unappealing - it basically reminds me of middle school, and I guess I'm not really into that anymore. Lots of things said just to get a reaction (e.g. racial slurs), lots of weird discussions about women, lots…

My own experience feels different than yours like how friendship is different in some areas.

In the good community games usually things are not deep: people are nice but no one will really risk anything or inconvenience themselves for you.

In more "hardcore" games where everyone can be hostile and gain to fuck with you, finding people who help other has a lot more meaning. I'm used to play with a guild in multiple PvP oriented MMO: I know most of them will risk their hardly obtained gear to help. We have good relationships with some other guilds and know we'll all go out of our ways to help each other in different games. When you could kill new players, take their loot and camp their corpse, being one of those who don't but will help with some gear and tips can snowball months later. When you can scam and cheat people, getting a trustful trader reputation can mean a lot.

If everyone is nice, no one really is.

Re: What Men and Women Consider Hardcore Gaming Are Not The Same

#37
New candidate for Most Confusing Chart of 2018 right here folks:

https://quanticfoundry.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/overal...

Even the explanation doesn't help:

> In this chart below, the y-axis is showing the percentile rank of each motivation. That 50th-%tile line represents the average among the 350,000+ gamers who have completed the Gamer Motivation Profile. So for example, the 74th-%tile in Competition among Hardcore gamers means that the average Hardcore gamer scores higher on Competition than 74% of the gamers in the full data set.

I genuinely don't think there's anything useful that can be said here at all without knowing what fraction of gamers make up the different catagories. Beyond that, all we can say for sure is that "hardcore" gamers like gaming more. Ugh.

Re: What Men and Women Consider Hardcore Gaming Are Not The Same

#38
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do offer an "Age Report" which costs $2499: https://quanticfoundry.com/age-report/ Here's a sample chart showing how "Competition" ranks by age: https://quanticfoundry.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Compet...

I honestly thought you were joking. Their data presentation wasn't good, who would pay this???

>who would pay this???

Enough people to keep them in business. If you're planning a major product launch, $2500 for a market research report is pocket change.

Re: What Men and Women Consider Hardcore Gaming Are Not The Same

#39
post #36
post #17

Ignoring the graphs, curious how much of this is just a response to community. Anecdotes abound, beware. Even as an older (for gaming, anyway) white male, the community in some competitive games is just really unappealing - it basically reminds me of middle school, and I guess I'm not really into that anymore. Lots of things said just to get a reaction (e.g. racial slurs), lots of weird discussions about women, lots…

My own experience feels different than yours like how friendship is different in some areas. In the good community games usually things are not deep: people are nice but no one will really risk anything or inconvenience themselves for you. In more "hardcore" games where everyone can be hostile and gain to fuck with you, finding people who help other has a lot more meaning. I'm used to play with a guild in multiple Pv…

> If everyone is nice, no one really is.

...this sounds incredibly messed up. The good people might be harder to find in a nice crowd, but the experience of finding them is much nicer.

I can see how a friendship forged in the face of assholes would feel stronger, but I dont think it would necessarily BE a better friendship. Way too easy to be bound with someone that is just LESS of an ass.

This sounds like "yay Stockholm Syndrome" more than "here is a safe and stable source of friends", but I'm really glad you shared the outlook because it certainly explains a lot of people. Wow.

Re: What Men and Women Consider Hardcore Gaming Are Not The Same

#40
post #4

Warning: lies with bars that don’t start at 0.

No it doesn’t lie. Graph manipulation is a problem; this is not an example of that.

If you look at the graph that shows motivations for hardcore gamers on men vs. women, there are very obvious design choices that are definitely lying. For Community vs Competition, 62% and 63% are both the same height, while there is a significant difference between the 62% and 61% of community.

For Power and Strategy, both are 61% but Power's 61% is noticeably lower than Strategy's.

The real differences are probably not as defined as this graph makes it seem it is as Community is basically the same but the 1% difference makes the graph look very off.

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