Tesla Second Quarter 2018 Update • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla Second Quarter 2018 Update

#171

Post by MagnumOpus » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 11:07 PM UTC

PopsiclePete wrote: post #158

geerlingguy wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish other car companies would create more compelling and somewhat affordable electric cars. At least in the US, the only two cars I can think of (besides the Model 3, which is hard to come by) that move the needle at all are the Nissan Leaf and Chevy Bolt, both of which look... not great. Why don't any other car companies offer a 'standard' mid size or compact sedan that's fully electric? Just take an existing dec…

I believe it's for the exact same reason other Big Companies are incapable of delivering anything "exciting": 1. Soulless design-by-committee. 2. Complex internal politics - "Cool idea you have there with the Prius, but I don't want to see it become too successful and eat into the sales of the Corolla. We need to sell 200k Corollas or I don't get my bonus". 3. The "proven" technique of having focus groups with a dive…

That, but also the aim to serve the mass market rather than the 1%, and therefore the need to produce a car that is profitable when sold for 25k rather than 65k.

Re: Tesla Second Quarter 2018 Update

#172

Post by rconti » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 11:07 PM UTC

kposehn wrote: post #121

curuinor wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, unironically, yes. Prius is one of the most remarkable cars ever, even if actual car enthusiasts weren't very enthused.

As a car enthusiast, while I absolutely despise the driving dynamics of a Prius I deeply appreciate that it and other hybrids have had such a positive impact on cars. Hybrids are now becoming the standard for next gen drivers cars and are honestly pretty amazing tech. Now if only people would stop driving their Prius' 10-under in the fast lane.

My favorite thing about the Prius (other than the economy) is the simply MASSIVE space inside -- particularly rear seat legroom and the flat floor, but the trunk is huge as well.

My least favorite thing is the near-deafening road noise, particularly in the back seat. It's got a tin can door closure sound that reminds me of a Renault 5 or something. It's a HUGE step down from most economy cars in those regards.

This was through the 2nd and 3rd gen, at least. I've not been in a 4th gen.

Re: Tesla Second Quarter 2018 Update

#173

Post by CarVac » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 11:08 PM UTC

sien wrote: post #129

bmelton wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but why not a standard looking body instead of some weird buggy space-age thing? I think they're still counting on the signaling. It's said that the Prius was bought by so many in large part because it looked so goofy, in that it didn't look like anything else, so everybody knew it was a Prius, which by proxy meant that you were driving green. Tesla shook that up, but styling still remains something withheld for th…

The Honda Insight looked even more goofy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Insight#Design They were shown in 1997 and on the road in the US by 2001 or so. The Prius seems to have been a much better car.

I drive a 2004 Prius and my friend recently bought a 2000 Insight.

The Insight is pretty much strictly a commuter car: it's laughably tiny, like a roadster without any power. But it's really fun, and gets outrageously good fuel economy despite how crude the hybrid system is relative to Toyota's.

The Prius on the other hand is an everyday vehicle that's spacious inside and small on the outside. Far better suited to be the only car someone owns.

Re: Tesla Second Quarter 2018 Update

#174

Post by newnewpdro » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 11:09 PM UTC

Out of curiosity, how many of you bought and sold TSLA over the last few hours since the report?

Re: Tesla Second Quarter 2018 Update

#175

Post by ghaff » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 11:11 PM UTC

zbentley wrote: post #138

woofyman wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need to look at the demographics of the drivers. Younger, inexperienced drivers drive smaller cars.

Aren't there a couple of feedback loops there? Younger/inexperienced drivers buy affordable cars, which are affordable because they are [perceived as] less safe. Older drivers, of people with the income to make a choice who care about perception, buy cars that are [perceived as] more safe.

They’re more affordable because they cost less to make.

Re: Tesla Second Quarter 2018 Update

#176

Post by gnicholas » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 11:12 PM UTC

iainmerrick wrote: post #117

acover wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hatchbacks cost more

I was going to say you’re wrong, but apparently in the US you’re right! Very strange. I think that is a US-specific thing. For some reason US customers prefer sedans (maybe some of the reasons given by other commenters) and that has probably skewed the market a bit (e.g. hatchbacks are only sold at higher trim levels since they’re marketed as a niche product). Edit to add: and maybe there’s a feedback effect too? Hat…

I think you're right about the feedback effect. Imagine the tooling needed to make all the parts, and then spreading that tooling cost across either 10x vehicles or 30x vehicles. Lower-volume vehicles are more expensive, all things equal.

Re: Tesla Second Quarter 2018 Update

#177

Post by drewrv » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 11:15 PM UTC

avar wrote: post #142

Meekro wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Large cars are safer. The IIHS publishes a stat they call "driver deaths per million registered vehicle years." Check it out: http://www.iihs.org/iihs/news/desktopnews/on-the-road-again-... Notice a pattern? All of the safest cars (including the handful in which nobody died) are large. Mostly SUVs and pickups, with a few luxury sedans thrown in. All of the least safe cars are small. Many of them are tiny . Incidental…

Are larger cars increasing safety overall, or are they just "winning" in crashes v.s. smaller vehicles? Would the driver of the Ford Fiesta still be alive if he'd crashed into another Fiesta instead of a Jeep Cherokee?

Most likely they’re just killing people in smaller cars, deaths from car crashes are higher in the US compared to other developed countries after all. Americans seem to enjoy a good arms race.

Re: Tesla Second Quarter 2018 Update

#178

Post by MBCook » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 11:21 PM UTC

PopsiclePete wrote: post #161

MBCook wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And even if you do have a garage, would your apartment complex allow you to install a real charger? Or would you get stuck charging with 110v? Unfortunately that little piece of infrastructure could easily be a deal killer for a ton of people. Not everyone is a homeowner with a garage. And parking in a charging space at some random retail establishment every couple days for a few hours to charge just seems insane.

That sounds like a temporary problem to me - not anything fundamentally wrong that can't be fixed. Apartment complexes where I live (Denver metro) are already competing with each other on features like "bike/snowboard fix-up stations", "Amazon lockers", "heated pool", and other absurdities - you bet they're going to install 220v chargers if it helps lure people in. Eventually, it will be expected - just like the bike…

Schoedel be fixed, for right now if you were at one of the big auto companies and you find out that 30% of customers* can’t buy an electric car because of these issues… what does that do to your interest in selling electric cars?

If I could buy something equivalent to my current car that was electric, I’d be happy to. But I would definitely have to figure out the charging situation. And that could easily turn into a mess. That mass, plus premium price, plus possibly limited availability may make it easier for me to just buy another gas car for now.

*Number made up

Re: Tesla Second Quarter 2018 Update

#179

Post by nickserv » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 11:25 PM UTC

Redoubts wrote: post #136

geerlingguy wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish other car companies would create more compelling and somewhat affordable electric cars. At least in the US, the only two cars I can think of (besides the Model 3, which is hard to come by) that move the needle at all are the Nissan Leaf and Chevy Bolt, both of which look... not great. Why don't any other car companies offer a 'standard' mid size or compact sedan that's fully electric? Just take an existing dec…

There also was the VW e-Golf, though they stopped making them in 2018. I'm not sure if that means anything for other manufacturers. https://cleantechnica.com/2018/04/30/volkswagens-decision-to...

There's still the Golf GT-E which looks pretty sweet, shared platform with the Audi e-tron. Finally a mainstream plug in hybrid with good performance. Now, about the price...

Re: Tesla Second Quarter 2018 Update

#180

Post by codeulike » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 11:26 PM UTC

giobox wrote: post #53

zjaffee wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because battery technology isn't where it needs to be yet, where Tesla is absolutely winning when it comes to this. Honda released their plug in Honda Clarity, but it only has a range of 89 miles.

This simply isn't true - the Chevrolet Bolt has an EPA-estimate 238 mile range, with many reviewers getting close to 300. Pretty much what you get in a base Model 3. What's more you can actually walk into a dealership and buy a Bolt today, good luck trying that with a Model 3. It also costs almost 15 grand less than the cheapest Model 3 Tesla is currently shipping, given they still don't have a release date for the m…

Chevvy sell the Bolt at an $8k loss, due to the battery. Nonetheless I'd love to have a Bolt, but I live in the UK and they aren't bothering to produce a RHD version.