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Tesla Second Quarter 2018 Update

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Re: Tesla Second Quarter 2018 Update

#121

Post by kposehn »

curuinor wrote: post #115
gamblor956 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toyota went from selling 19,000 Prius' in 2000 to 281,000 Prius in the same timescale. It becomes even more impressive when you realize that before the Prius, there was no market for green cars, hybrid, electric, or otherwise. Amazing!!! [1] Even more impressive is that these are sales of a single model...

I mean, unironically, yes. Prius is one of the most remarkable cars ever, even if actual car enthusiasts weren't very enthused.

As a car enthusiast, while I absolutely despise the driving dynamics of a Prius I deeply appreciate that it and other hybrids have had such a positive impact on cars. Hybrids are now becoming the standard for next gen drivers cars and are honestly pretty amazing tech.

Now if only people would stop driving their Prius' 10-under in the fast lane.

Re: Tesla Second Quarter 2018 Update

#122

Post by bjl »

lawrenceyan wrote: post #14

Looks like the bankruptcy short thesis has been pretty much debunked, cash burn way below expected.

Not really. Accounts payable ballooned to around $3B, and cash on hand is only ~$2B (of which about $1B is in the form of revokable deposits).

Re: Tesla Second Quarter 2018 Update

#123

Post by rconti »

gamblor956 wrote: post #112
dmode wrote: post #66

Tesla only sold 104 Roadstars in 2011. Now they are on track to sell 250,000 Model S, X, and 3 combined in 2018. The scale of Tesla's accomplishment is truly under appreciated. It becomes even more impressive when you realize that this is an electric car, sold by Tesla owned stores, supported by over a thousand Superchargers. Amazing !!

Toyota went from selling 19,000 Prius' in 2000 to 281,000 Prius in the same timescale. It becomes even more impressive when you realize that before the Prius, there was no market for green cars, hybrid, electric, or otherwise. Amazing!!! [1] Even more impressive is that these are sales of a single model...

It definitely is impressive, and they deserve great credit for their advancements-- I never liked the Prius but it was beyond obvious that every car in the future HAD to have a way of capturing deceleration energy rather than just bleeding it off as crude waste heat -- how silly and archaic that seems now.

But I'm not quite clear on your comment-- At first I thought it was to be read that the Toyota accomplishment was more impressive than Tesla's. But then I realized maybe you meant it to be less impressive, because the scale is far less. So I assumed you meant maybe Tesla's accomplishment was the more impressive one. But then you said Toyota's is EVEN MORE impressive when you consider that it's just a single model (which is a good point).

Re: Tesla Second Quarter 2018 Update

#124

Post by rconti »

jgibson wrote: post #99
pseudocook wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how many of those are Model S. I hope that Model S is not suffering any problems so that Model 3 and Model X can go forward. I am only person in my circle of friends interested in Model S as opposed to the other two models. Anecdotally, I lost count of the number of Model 3's I see on a daily basis in Bay Area.

What attracts you about the S more than the 3?

I really, really, really wish my 3 had the same awesome dash and display of the S. And of course the S is better looking although a bit long in the tooth. And has more space inside. And the power trunklid is nice because I'm not used to sedans and don't really like manually closing the trunk on the 3. It's a 2-step motion unlike a hatchback lid that closes more naturally.

But the more time I spend in the 3, the more I realize it's a MUCH nicer car inside than the S -- which I didn't expect.

Re: Tesla Second Quarter 2018 Update

#125

Post by rconti »

chipotle_coyote wrote: post #113
tormeh wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sedans are aerodynamic. Hatchbacks can fit more luggage. A hatchback is the responsible choice for for a family car, and therefore boring by association.

The Volkswagen GTI and Golf R would like a word with you.

Just sold my R 2 weeks ago and picked up a 3. :) Both fantastic cars in their own right.

Re: Tesla Second Quarter 2018 Update

#126

Post by dragonwriter »

gamblor956 wrote: post #112
dmode wrote: post #66

Tesla only sold 104 Roadstars in 2011. Now they are on track to sell 250,000 Model S, X, and 3 combined in 2018. The scale of Tesla's accomplishment is truly under appreciated. It becomes even more impressive when you realize that this is an electric car, sold by Tesla owned stores, supported by over a thousand Superchargers. Amazing !!

Toyota went from selling 19,000 Prius' in 2000 to 281,000 Prius in the same timescale. It becomes even more impressive when you realize that before the Prius, there was no market for green cars, hybrid, electric, or otherwise. Amazing!!! [1] Even more impressive is that these are sales of a single model...

> It becomes even more impressive when you realize that before the Prius, there was no market for green cars, hybrid, electric, or otherwise.

The first incarnation of the Honda Insight was before the Prius, and somewhat successful before the Prius came on the scene and took over.

Re: Tesla Second Quarter 2018 Update

#127

Post by coredog64 »

bmelton wrote: post #40
geerlingguy wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish other car companies would create more compelling and somewhat affordable electric cars. At least in the US, the only two cars I can think of (besides the Model 3, which is hard to come by) that move the needle at all are the Nissan Leaf and Chevy Bolt, both of which look... not great. Why don't any other car companies offer a 'standard' mid size or compact sedan that's fully electric? Just take an existing dec…

> but why not a standard looking body instead of some weird buggy space-age thing? I think they're still counting on the signaling. It's said that the Prius was bought by so many in large part because it looked so goofy, in that it didn't look like anything else, so everybody knew it was a Prius, which by proxy meant that you were driving green. Tesla shook that up, but styling still remains something withheld for th…

The Gen-1 Prius didn't look much different from any other "used bar of soap" compact that Toyota made. The Gen-2 did have a unique body style, but I put that down to aero requirements to hit fuel economy targets.

Re: Tesla Second Quarter 2018 Update

#128

Post by woofyman »

Meekro wrote: post #119
Puer wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because car companies are horridly shortsighted. All of the major US car makers right now are doubling down on building gas-guzzling pickup trucks and SUVs because they have a nice profit margin and because Americans love commuting alone downtown in traffic every day in their seats 7, 20 mpg abominations with trunks and beds that are never used. Maybe it's what's necessary to survive in the moment and maybe the momen…

Large cars are safer. The IIHS publishes a stat they call "driver deaths per million registered vehicle years." Check it out: http://www.iihs.org/iihs/news/desktopnews/on-the-road-again-... Notice a pattern? All of the safest cars (including the handful in which nobody died) are large. Mostly SUVs and pickups, with a few luxury sedans thrown in. All of the least safe cars are small. Many of them are tiny . Incidental…

You need to look at the demographics of the drivers. Younger, inexperienced drivers drive smaller cars.

Re: Tesla Second Quarter 2018 Update

#129

Post by sien »

bmelton wrote: post #40
geerlingguy wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish other car companies would create more compelling and somewhat affordable electric cars. At least in the US, the only two cars I can think of (besides the Model 3, which is hard to come by) that move the needle at all are the Nissan Leaf and Chevy Bolt, both of which look... not great. Why don't any other car companies offer a 'standard' mid size or compact sedan that's fully electric? Just take an existing dec…

> but why not a standard looking body instead of some weird buggy space-age thing? I think they're still counting on the signaling. It's said that the Prius was bought by so many in large part because it looked so goofy, in that it didn't look like anything else, so everybody knew it was a Prius, which by proxy meant that you were driving green. Tesla shook that up, but styling still remains something withheld for th…

The Honda Insight looked even more goofy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Insight#Design

They were shown in 1997 and on the road in the US by 2001 or so.

The Prius seems to have been a much better car.

Re: Tesla Second Quarter 2018 Update

#130

Post by coredog64 »

mtw wrote: post #51
geerlingguy wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish other car companies would create more compelling and somewhat affordable electric cars. At least in the US, the only two cars I can think of (besides the Model 3, which is hard to come by) that move the needle at all are the Nissan Leaf and Chevy Bolt, both of which look... not great. Why don't any other car companies offer a 'standard' mid size or compact sedan that's fully electric? Just take an existing dec…

One of the design constraint comes from the size of batteries. This is the battery for a Toyota Camry hybrid, a car with very limited electric range : https://images.hgmsites.net/med/toyota-camry-hybrid-battery-... Imagine the size required for Prius batteries or other electric cars! They just didn't come up one day with the idea of selling ugly cars

I just had the traction battery in my Gen 2 Prius replaced. It's not really any larger than what's in the Camry. There was a hack for the Gen 2 Prius that allowed EV only operation, and the maximum distance on that was less than 10 miles. Unless you're looking at one of the new plug-in Prius implementations, the batteries they use aren't really all that large.
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