How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind • Hacker News Board

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#381

Post by ezzzzz » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 9:12 PM UTC

moorhosj wrote: post #370

fhood wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Using Finland as an example is absurd. Finland has a very wealthy, very homogeneous population. Longer school days are designed, in this case, to keep many of these kids in a safe environment for as long as possible.

==Using Finland as an example is absurd. Finland has a very wealthy, very homogeneous population.== Finland is 21% less wealthy than America on a per capita basis. Finland GDP per capita - $35,964.77 US GDP per capita - $45,759.46 - http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Finland/Uni...

Finland has a drastically lower poverty rate, lower income inequality [1] and lower violent crime rate than the United States [2].

This fact, combined with Finland's well-known social safety nets leads to the obvious conclusion that you would be hard pressed to find living conditions like those in the slums of Akron/Cleveland in Finland.

[1]https://data.oecd.org/finland.htm#profile-government [2]http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Finland/Uni...

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#382

Post by kevin_thibedeau » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 9:19 PM UTC

saagarjha wrote: post #360

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Winter break is to save money on heating. Which is why it doesn't exist in lower latitudes of the US.

Winter break very much exists in the bottom half of the US.

The mid-February break GP was alluding to doesn't.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#383

Post by Veelox » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 9:39 PM UTC

verall wrote: post #212

e40 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Others fall asleep immediately at school since they live with 5+ siblings and there are literally no available beds at home. I am not trying to blame the parents in all the cases either At some point, though, personal responsibility has to come into play. Having 5+ children when you have no resources... this is the true elephant in the room. It seems talking about it gets labels thrown around. I guess it's a conversa…

I don't see how this is an elephant in the room or a conversation we can't have right now. Lets. What, besides providing extra resources to underpriveleged children so they are not punished for their parents mistakes, can be done? Are you suggesting we make their parents "pay" somehow? Or a program to prevent the parents from having 5+ kids when they don't have the resources?

> Are you suggesting we make their parents "pay" somehow? Or a program to prevent the parents from having 5+ kids when they don't have the resources?

Due to the way government assistance is structured it encourages parents to 1) not get married, 2) have more kids, 3) not begin working if they don't already work.

If we changed government assistance to encourage parents getting married that would help reduce fatherlessness and all of the negatives that come with that.

If we changed government assistance to encourage parents to have less children they would be better able to take care of the ones they have.

If we changed government assistance to encourage parents to work it would reduce the number of people who grow up on government assistance and live on it their whole lives. This would have long term positive consequences.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#384

Post by moorhosj » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 9:46 PM UTC

ezzzzz wrote: post #381

moorhosj wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

==Using Finland as an example is absurd. Finland has a very wealthy, very homogeneous population.== Finland is 21% less wealthy than America on a per capita basis. Finland GDP per capita - $35,964.77 US GDP per capita - $45,759.46 - http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Finland/Uni...

Finland has a drastically lower poverty rate, lower income inequality [1] and lower violent crime rate than the United States [2]. This fact, combined with Finland's well-known social safety nets leads to the obvious conclusion that you would be hard pressed to find living conditions like those in the slums of Akron/Cleveland in Finland. [1] https://data.oecd.org/finland.htm#profile-government [2] http://www.nationma…

==This fact, combined with Finland's well-known social safety nets leads to the obvious conclusion that you would be hard pressed to find living conditions like those in the slums of Akron/Cleveland in Finland.==

Isn't it possible that Finland's well-known social safety net is at least partially responsible for the lower poverty, income inequality and violent crime rates?

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#385

Post by forapurpose » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 9:49 PM UTC

toyg wrote: post #75

masklinn wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Longer school days, 3 meals, and a longer school year helps students stay focused. The middle one is absolutely true, the other two I really doubt e.g. in Finland or Germany, schoolday starts around 9AM and ends around 2PM, yielding 3h30 to 4h studies a day accounting for breaks, 5 days/week, with little homework (maybe 5h/week total). Afternoon is usually dedicated to clubs.

You absolutely cannot compare Northern Europe with inner-city black America. Different worlds, different values, different histories, different attitudes, different challenges. No model fits all, especially in education, but these two realities are so dramatically different that they don’t really belong in the same sentence.

> You absolutely cannot compare Northern Europe with inner-city black America.

Bad schools are throughout the United States, especially in poor areas, of which predominantly African-American regions make up only one part.

Also, while the parent's claim is a common excuse for inaction and lack of funding, I have yet to see any basis for it. While every case is different, we can all learn from others.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#386

Post by forapurpose » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 9:52 PM UTC

fhood wrote: post #103

toyg wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You absolutely cannot compare Northern Europe with inner-city black America. Different worlds, different values, different histories, different attitudes, different challenges. No model fits all, especially in education, but these two realities are so dramatically different that they don’t really belong in the same sentence.

Agreed. Using Finland as an example is absurd. Finland has a very wealthy, very homogeneous population. Longer school days are designed, in this case, to keep many of these kids in a safe environment for as long as possible.

> Finland has a ... very homogeneous population

I don't know this to be true or false, but is there any evidence of it? And is there any evidence that it has an effect on educational effectiveness? I wouldn't expect an effect; people learn to read, write and do math in K-12 all over the world.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#387

Post by eropple » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 9:53 PM UTC

Dirlewanger wrote: post #368

awelkie wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to get too off topic, but I have a hard time blaming the left for the current political divide in the United States. Saying that someone who pushes leftwards is bad for American politics because they're not closer to the "center" seems like promoting a false equivalence.

If you don't think both sides play a part in the precipitous spike in polarizing political discourse, then frankly you are ignorant.

Uhh. One side saying "kids shouldn't take six figures of debt to go to the college we've collectively insisted they need to go to" and the other saying "blood and soil, Jews will not replace us" are not the same thing, yo.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#388

Post by forapurpose » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 9:54 PM UTC

e40 wrote: post #96

roland35 wrote: post #50

I am excited about this approach and I think LeBron's organization has put a lot of though and work with experts on this project. - This school is a true public school and not a charter school. In Ohio a lot of charter schools can have some degree of selection in their students and kick out families which don't meet the requirements which leads to more at-risk students left to the public schools. This school is makin…

Others fall asleep immediately at school since they live with 5+ siblings and there are literally no available beds at home. I am not trying to blame the parents in all the cases either At some point, though, personal responsibility has to come into play. Having 5+ children when you have no resources... this is the true elephant in the room. It seems talking about it gets labels thrown around. I guess it's a conversa…

> Having 5+ children when you have no resources... this is the true elephant in the room.

What makes you say that's an actual problem that has a significant impact on American education?

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#389

Post by supercheetah » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 9:57 PM UTC

naravara wrote: post #304

neuland wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the problem is toxic home environments though, why aren't people suggesting that we cut out the middle man and focus on building a better foster / adoption system and encouraging people to use it? It seems that everyone is recognizing this is the problem, but the solutions all revolve around school, when it really doesn't have anything to do with schools. Edit: Or boarding schools.

>If the problem is toxic home environments though, why aren't people suggesting that we cut out the middle man and focus on building a better foster / adoption system and encouraging people to use it? Because the prospect of forcibly separating kids from their parents based on the decisions of aloof and poorly managed bureaucrats is a political and ethical nightmare. The solution revolves around schools because schoo…

> Because the prospect of forcibly separating kids from their parents based on the decisions of aloof and poorly managed bureaucrats is a political and ethical nightmare.

That's not at all what was being suggested.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#390

Post by forapurpose » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 9:59 PM UTC

e40 wrote: post #329

verall wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how this is an elephant in the room or a conversation we can't have right now. Lets. What, besides providing extra resources to underpriveleged children so they are not punished for their parents mistakes, can be done? Are you suggesting we make their parents "pay" somehow? Or a program to prevent the parents from having 5+ kids when they don't have the resources?

What, besides providing extra resources to underpriveleged children so they are not punished for their parents mistakes, can be done? Unintended consequences. I believe it is generally accepted that the policies in the 70's led to the destruction (dismantling?) of the urban/poor family (yes, predominately African American). Also, we've seen that this issue has significantly fueled the rise of people like our current…

> I believe it is generally accepted that the policies in the 70's led to the destruction (dismantling?) of the urban/poor family (yes, predominately African American).

These problems existed long before then. For example, a famous and controversial report from 1965:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Negro_Family:_The_Case_For...

The problems are largely due to systematic oppression of African-American people for generations, denying them access to adequate housing, education, income, credit, access to legal protections, and exposing them to risks of violence by the state and by white people.