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Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

theintercept.com

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Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#281

Post by bad_user »

DINKDINK wrote: post #273
joshuamorton wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fwiw I think you're being mildly too revisionist in the other direction. The major issue with the hacking wasn't stealing source code, but attempts to access user data. Certainly accessing source code is bad, but imo in general Google protects user data much moreso than source code. (I work at Google)

>in general Google protects user data How is storing and cataloging reams of private data 'protecting' it? If your significant other was constantly noting every friend you talked to, every purchase you made, videotaping your every move, would you call that protecting them? To protect a user's data, it shouldn't even be collected in the first place. I think a better choice of words is that Google does a better job at…

People mistake privacy for security.

Google has one of the most secure services on the Internet. At the same time Google is the biggest threat to privacy.

These two statements are not mutually exclusive. People simply don't get what privacy is about.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#282

Post by kodablah »

enitihas wrote: post #151
chadmeister wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You got any links to some of those discussions with such overwhelming support for censorship on HN? Because your claim doesn't sound even remotely true from my own personal experience on here. Your response does however sound like a typrical Whataboutism comment on here.

See the top comment on this thread(and other comments too) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16414703 . I am not able to find the HN thread on Tim Cook's comments, but here is a WaPo link: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/12/04... For some more info on apple helping censorship in China: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_of_the_iTunes_Store... I am not saying Apple is wrong in choosing…

The top-level comment is not representative because sub comments may be voted higher. It is unfortunate that you base your opinion on a site by top-level comments instead of top-quality ones. I have unwaveringly been against Apple's approach here, made it clear in posts like the one you linked to, and yet still as a whole we're branded. It seems the real problem is volume (in frequency and loudness) and the inability for people to look beyond it.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#283

Post by lyk »

bad_user wrote: post #280
Aunche wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google is the destroyer of privacy. Google tracks their users at an unprecedented level in the whole history of humanity and if they do this, we now have concrete proof that they don't have values that are above their bottom line. Sure Google stores a lot of data about me, but why should I be worried? They haven't done anything malicious with it. All user data from Google stays on Google, so how is that any differe…

Dropbox cannot cross reference your personal photos with your email, your YouTube preferences, your fetishes extracted from your searches, your purchases, your entire location history, etc. That said Dropbox is another poor choice for privacy. I'm searching for alternatives, but the alternatives don't seem to be that competent, except for the peer to peer solutions like Resilio Sync and Syncthing. My only consolation…

Check out keybase, I've been using it as a Dropbox replacement, and it works pretty well. Its file access on mobile is still in development, as is everything else.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#284

Post by enitihas »

dang wrote: post #276
enitihas wrote: post #123

When Tim Cook backs China’s vision of an ‘open’ Internet in a Chinese forum, HN says that at least Apple is providing some service to the Chinese users, who will have worse services if apple drops out of China. Apple routinely blocks apps on the request of the Chinese government. But if Goole too decides to provides services to China, in accordance with Chinese law, the reaction is so different here. Not taking any s…

I'm pretty sure this is sample bias. The things we disagree with are much more highlighted in our consciousness; people with the opposite views to yours will see the opposite patterns on HN. There's even a name for this, as an HN user pointed out to me a while ago: "hostile media effect". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostile_media_effect https://hn.algolia.com/?query=%22hostile%20media%20effect%22...

Your comment is very insightful. This is some new perspective for me.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#285

Post by AndrewKemendo »

nitwit005 wrote: post #261
bkohlmann wrote: post #152

I'm having a hard time understanding how Google employees will shut down "immoral" project's for the US Dept of Defense programs like "Project Maven," yet hold their tongues in building an application that limits speech, aiding a repressive regime.

You realize this is an article that exists because a Google employee leaked it to the press right?

The difference is significant however.

The Google/Maven project just barely got started and people were resigning in protest.

The Google/China project has...

Teams of programmers and engineers creat[ing] a custom Android app, different versions of which have been named “Maotai” and “Longfei.” The app has already been demonstrated to the Chinese government; the finalized version could be launched in the next six to nine months

and nobody is resigning or internally protesting.

Not only that, Fei Fei Li set up an AI research shop in China for Google and was one of the most outspoken advocates of keeping Maven quiet, yet is loud about Google/China AI cooperation on literally exactly the same technology.

So Google, employees and management, have clearly chosen a side here, even if it wasn't an intentional policy.

And just to be excruciatingly clear, the work that Google is doing in China includes a heavy specific computer vision piece around object detection/recognition/segmentation, which will be used with the Yilong UAV systems (and others) as well as the Guangdong social experiments.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#286

Post by LeoPanthera »

bad_user wrote: post #280
Aunche wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google is the destroyer of privacy. Google tracks their users at an unprecedented level in the whole history of humanity and if they do this, we now have concrete proof that they don't have values that are above their bottom line. Sure Google stores a lot of data about me, but why should I be worried? They haven't done anything malicious with it. All user data from Google stays on Google, so how is that any differe…

Dropbox cannot cross reference your personal photos with your email, your YouTube preferences, your fetishes extracted from your searches, your purchases, your entire location history, etc. That said Dropbox is another poor choice for privacy. I'm searching for alternatives, but the alternatives don't seem to be that competent, except for the peer to peer solutions like Resilio Sync and Syncthing. My only consolation…

I use Syncthing as a self-hosted Dropbox clone.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#287

Post by macspoofing »

mocae wrote: post #204
macspoofing wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>My god...where is your shame? Do you have no sense of your own hypocrisy? I am certain you have 0 qualms in using and buying Chinese manufactured products, or buying services and products from companies that operate in China. And yet here we are with you lecturing from your soapbox on who should be or shouldn't be ashamed of their actions. Look to yourself first before moralizing at others.

There is a difference between not having a choice and openly advertising and justifying unethical behavior. The fact that this is the only sentence you've touched speaks for itself.

>There is a difference between not having a choice

You have no choice?

>and justifying unethical behavior.

I get it. It's not unethical when you engage in commerce with a regime you find unethical, or when you buy from all the other companies that manufacture their goods in China ... but it's unethical if Google doesn't want to ignore 1.4 billion people?

>The fact that this is the only sentence you've touched speaks for itself.

As opposed to the other three snide and arrogant sentences? If you'd like a good-faith discussion please lead by example.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#289

Post by dang »

enitihas wrote: post #284
dang wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure this is sample bias. The things we disagree with are much more highlighted in our consciousness; people with the opposite views to yours will see the opposite patterns on HN. There's even a name for this, as an HN user pointed out to me a while ago: "hostile media effect". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostile_media_effect https://hn.algolia.com/?query=%22hostile%20media%20effect%22...

Your comment is very insightful. This is some new perspective for me.

It was for me too!

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#290

Post by fauigerzigerk »

quotemstr wrote: post #265

The hypocrisy of western activist types on this issue is astounding. One week, they demand that tech companies across the US censor what they find "harmful", but the next week, they condemn the Chinese for doing exactly the same thing for content they find "harmful". Either you're in favor of free speech or you're just partial about which content you want to censor. The activist crowd in the west lost all moral stand…

I think there is an important distinction to be made.

Censorship that is meant to block all criticism of the current rulers to keep them in power forever is unlike all other kinds of censorship because it is self-referential and self-reinforcing.

If a government censors, say, sites that distribute pirated movies or sites that glamorise suicide, I can still protest against that ban or campaign to get a different government elected.

But if a government censors both those sites and my criticism of the ban, then that is a wholly different kind of censorship.

Making that distinction is not hypocrisy.

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