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Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

theintercept.com

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Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#181

Post by mywacaday »

panarky wrote: post #144
mywacaday wrote: post #20

Why should there be a different standard for Google and other tech companies to not expand into China. If we have a problem with how their government works policy should be applied that prevents/manages how businesses subject to our laws operate abroad. The majority of people don't really care how corporations behave. If they did Google search/gmail/maps would not be so popular. They have the right price point(0$) fo…

> Why should there be a different standard for Google Because Google "is not a conventional company" [1]. A tired trope on HN is that corporations cannot and should not be ethical entities. They are legally mandated to maximize shareholder value, and this usually requires taking actions that people find morally repugnant. This is a myth and it is horseshit. Google's mission is to "organize the world's information and…

Maybe I worded it badly, I meant why should manufacturing companies be allowed into china with no fanfare but google be ostracized for doing the same.

If what they are doing is legal so be it, what we want to be legal is the real question. Should we be doing business with countries that don't have the same beliefs that we do? The other side is that encouraging companies like google into China could help in the long run.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#182

Post by knockingat3am »

hartator wrote: post #156
bilbo0s wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"...Google is the destroyer of privacy. Google tracks their users at an unprecedented level in the whole history of humanity..." In fairness, you never had a problem with that privacy invasion before. You still respected them in spite of the fact that they were Gestapo-like privacy invaders. As evidenced by your claim that, "...the fact that Google pulled their search engine out of China, defying their censorship att…

> Gestapo-like privacy invaders Hum, I don’t remember Google actions has led to the slaughter of milliona of people. But, please enlight me.

The Gestapo also didn't solely cause that.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#183

Post by pluto9 »

vntok wrote: post #149
ethbro wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What was the last time Western interventionism brought any good for the world? WWI, WWII, Gulf War (1990), Kosovo (1999)?

Doesn't Germany sit firmly in the Western world?

Japan doesn't.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#184

Post by iamshs »

bkohlmann wrote: post #152

I'm having a hard time understanding how Google employees will shut down "immoral" project's for the US Dept of Defense programs like "Project Maven," yet hold their tongues in building an application that limits speech, aiding a repressive regime.

I am having a hard time understanding that he has Indian background and how come he is aloof to ramifications of censorship? He is actively pushing censorship, what government will not want to have a censored version of web? One version for Sikh, different one for Muslim and a different one for Hindu. Well done Sundar, even thinking about it. You will be beholden to local laws, and local laws will always change towards repressive side very easily if that means accomodating this project.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#185

Post by econ4all »

bad_user wrote: post #133

There might be many tech companies in China, no doubt, including big names, and companies should comply with local regulations if they want to do business, however the fact that Google pulled their search engine out of China, defying their censorship attempts, is one big reason for why I respected Google, in spite of my reservations for them. So let me tell you what I think as an EU citizen that's actively concerned…

Not to interrupt another google bashing session on this site or stop an EU person from self-righteously patting themselves on the back but conflating several issues to justify political reprisal is exactly what's wrong with the EU's fine issuance regime and ad-hominem attacks on companies to try and justify the practice to yourself doesn't make it look better.

Also "anti-trust" is an american term with historical context (you use the generic term), we invented the practice, and unlike you we don't use it as a political and protectionist tool.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#187

Post by pytyper2 »

gt_ wrote: post #111
pytyper2 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you remember the "Don't Be Evil" campaign? Google literally rose to prominence with this as their slogan. I would expect a company whose slogan is "Don't Be Evil" to completely shun a country who wants censored search.

You would? Google is private company. If you want a powerful entity to live up to your standards, you should look into creating a government. I recommend a democracy; and hold your neighbors accountable for treating it as their own. Together, you can eventually build something to be proud of. It will probably never be perfect, but it will be yours for as long as you take care of it.

It was their standard, Eric Schmidt stood on many stages and said the same. Google being a private company has no bearing on my previous comment. Private companies don't have to be amoral. A much more capitalistic move would be to use their information and computation power to devalue the Yuan and acquire large swathes of the now defunct China and rename it Google. Now, not only can you search Google you can go to Google. This would be much more valuable than some pleb ad revenue.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#188

Post by yborg »

SquareWheel wrote: post #169
thinkingemote wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about this for accuracy: "It is definitely worse to have a startup phase with the motto 'don't be evil' and then later heavily demote it once they've got everyone's data"

Still reads as irrational to me, but at least it's technically accurate. It's worth remembering that "data" as they say stales very quickly. Knowing that you ordered a package two months ago is far less interesting than knowing you're expecting one next week. Or that you'll be booking a plane trip soon, and wouldn't you just love to know Delta is cheapest on that date? "Having your data" isn't a binary concept. Their…

> The only thing that matters is if that firehose is still available to them.

Which it obviously is, so I'm not sure what point you were making viz. Google. The "turning off" of the items you mention is also entirely a user-visualization exercise. All of your data is still there inside the panopticon. Even not using Google service anywhere does not free you from it, if you send email to a Gmail user, lo, Google has it. So concerns about the behavior of a company with the market presence of Google are very relevant.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#189

Post by kalleboo »

panarky wrote: post #144
mywacaday wrote: post #20

Why should there be a different standard for Google and other tech companies to not expand into China. If we have a problem with how their government works policy should be applied that prevents/manages how businesses subject to our laws operate abroad. The majority of people don't really care how corporations behave. If they did Google search/gmail/maps would not be so popular. They have the right price point(0$) fo…

> Why should there be a different standard for Google Because Google "is not a conventional company" [1]. A tired trope on HN is that corporations cannot and should not be ethical entities. They are legally mandated to maximize shareholder value, and this usually requires taking actions that people find morally repugnant. This is a myth and it is horseshit. Google's mission is to "organize the world's information and…

> This is a myth and it is horseshit.

Exactly. As for an example of a company showing some backbone...

https://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/tim-cook-soundly-rej...:

"When we work on making our devices accessible by the blind," he said, "I don't consider the bloody ROI." He said that the same thing about environmental issues, worker safety, and other areas where Apple is a leader.

He didn't stop there, however, as he looked directly at the NCPPR representative and said,

"If you want me to do things only for ROI reasons, you should get out of this stock."

(of course, Apple does do business in China and practices app censorship there, so...)

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#190

Post by pytyper2 »

darepublic wrote: post #95
pytyper2 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you remember the "Don't Be Evil" campaign? Google literally rose to prominence with this as their slogan. I would expect a company whose slogan is "Don't Be Evil" to completely shun a country who wants censored search.

I thought Google performed censorship in North America too. After Trump's election people were crying for more censorship on facebook and Google.

I think they censor everywhere to a certain extent, this seems more like a concerted effort along the lines of, "what are we going to allow them to view" and not "should we remove the child porn links and isis videos and pirated movie links now that we know about them"
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