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Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

theintercept.com

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Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#41

Post by mocae »

macspoofing wrote: post #22
mywacaday wrote: post #20

Why should there be a different standard for Google and other tech companies to not expand into China. If we have a problem with how their government works policy should be applied that prevents/manages how businesses subject to our laws operate abroad. The majority of people don't really care how corporations behave. If they did Google search/gmail/maps would not be so popular. They have the right price point(0$) fo…

>Why should there be a different standard for Google and other tech companies to not expand into China. This exactly. I would even make a stronger case. It's not fair to expect a technology company to fight a major world economic power. This is a failure of US and EU governments. They should pressure China to liberalize their government and provide a level economic playing field (it is insane what China gets away wit…

You make it look like google would starve without China. Like they have to go there and participate. Shifting the blame for your lack of ethics onto some government is ridiculous in this context. My god...where is your shame?

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#42

Post by mywacaday »

Alir3z4 wrote: post #25
macspoofing wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why should there be a different standard for Google and other tech companies to not expand into China. This exactly. I would even make a stronger case. It's not fair to expect a technology company to fight a major world economic power. This is a failure of US and EU governments. They should pressure China to liberalize their government and provide a level economic playing field (it is insane what China gets away wit…

Neither US or EU are the world police. They have no rights and should not have any to pressure any country to push their own idea of how things should work in another country, just like how China and others don't demand such and even if they do that doesn't make it less wrong.

Agree they are not the world police but for EU/US citizens they are our government and should reflect our views and morals. Do we believe in censorship? Do we believe in borderline cheap labor?

I don't have the answers but there are hard questions there, not just for our governments but for us as voters.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#43

Post by thinkingemote »

SquareWheel wrote: post #16
pixelpoet wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is definitely worse to have a startup phase with the motto "don't be evil" and then later remove it once they've got everyone's data.

Please do not spread misinformation. They never changed their motto. https://abc.xyz/investor/other/google-code-of-conduct.html

How about this for accuracy: "It is definitely worse to have a startup phase with the motto 'don't be evil' and then later heavily demote it once they've got everyone's data"

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#44

Post by simias »

throw_way8882 wrote: post #30
mywacaday wrote: post #20

Why should there be a different standard for Google and other tech companies to not expand into China. If we have a problem with how their government works policy should be applied that prevents/manages how businesses subject to our laws operate abroad. The majority of people don't really care how corporations behave. If they did Google search/gmail/maps would not be so popular. They have the right price point(0$) fo…

eh.... I think I agree in principle with you, BUT something doesn't sit quite right. I'm currently in China (hence the throwaway account) and I think any level of collaboration with their government on restricting access to free information for the Chinese people should ABSOLUTELY BE CHALLENGED. Not doing so prolongs their government's ability to not reform vs getting caught in middle-income trap from lack of 0 to 1…

>I think any level of collaboration with their government on restricting access to free information for the Chinese people should ABSOLUTELY BE CHALLENGED

I don't think that's the parent point, it's more that if you do consider that doing business with the Chinese state is unethical then it makes more sense to push for regulation rather than expect big multinational companies to Do The Right Thing. Right now it seems that we're in a race to the bottom and the Chinese government is making the rules.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#45

Post by Mediterraneo10 »

Alir3z4 wrote: post #25
macspoofing wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why should there be a different standard for Google and other tech companies to not expand into China. This exactly. I would even make a stronger case. It's not fair to expect a technology company to fight a major world economic power. This is a failure of US and EU governments. They should pressure China to liberalize their government and provide a level economic playing field (it is insane what China gets away wit…

Neither US or EU are the world police. They have no rights and should not have any to pressure any country to push their own idea of how things should work in another country, just like how China and others don't demand such and even if they do that doesn't make it less wrong.

> They have no rights and should not have any to pressure any country to push their own idea of how things should work in another country

To believe that China does not attempt to influence other countries is naive. China puts a great deal of pressure on other nations with regard to things like recognition of Taiwan or inviting the Dalai Lama to speak. These have occasionally been in the news over the last few years, e.g. China’s retaliatory measures against Norway for Liu Xiabo winning the Nobel Peace Prize, but in fact they go back decades – when Michelangelo Antonioni was showing his documentary film Chung Kuo around in the early 1970s, in European countries where a screening was organized the local Chinese embassy would raise scandal.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#47

Post by thinkingemote »

Apfel wrote: post #29
SSchick wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> who have leaks of Googles algorithm Sounds plausible, got any sources on that?

If they had leaks of Google's algorithm, they'd likely have a much more usable product...

Oh my sweet summer techy. An algorithm alone does not make a usable or successful product.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#48

Post by mywacaday »

mocae wrote: post #37
mywacaday wrote: post #20

Why should there be a different standard for Google and other tech companies to not expand into China. If we have a problem with how their government works policy should be applied that prevents/manages how businesses subject to our laws operate abroad. The majority of people don't really care how corporations behave. If they did Google search/gmail/maps would not be so popular. They have the right price point(0$) fo…

"Don't be evil" if you marketed yourself in such a way, you shouldn't be surprised if the general public applies different standards to you.

When I read that line I though it read for a second "Don't be evil ;-)"

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#49

Post by JumpCrisscross »

Alir3z4 wrote: post #25
macspoofing wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why should there be a different standard for Google and other tech companies to not expand into China. This exactly. I would even make a stronger case. It's not fair to expect a technology company to fight a major world economic power. This is a failure of US and EU governments. They should pressure China to liberalize their government and provide a level economic playing field (it is insane what China gets away wit…

Neither US or EU are the world police. They have no rights and should not have any to pressure any country to push their own idea of how things should work in another country, just like how China and others don't demand such and even if they do that doesn't make it less wrong.

> Neither US or EU are the world police

If an American pays a Chinese businessman in China a bribe, that's an FCPA [1] violation. If the U.S. government wanted to prevent American technology companies from helping China's dictator build a modern dystopia, it would have precedent.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Corrupt_Practices_Act

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#50

Post by simias »

ForHackernews wrote: post #23
mywacaday wrote: post #20

Why should there be a different standard for Google and other tech companies to not expand into China. If we have a problem with how their government works policy should be applied that prevents/manages how businesses subject to our laws operate abroad. The majority of people don't really care how corporations behave. If they did Google search/gmail/maps would not be so popular. They have the right price point(0$) fo…

Are you just asking why anyone should have any ethical standards at all? Presumably even you think there is some line a tech company shouldn't cross, right?

You mean like "do no evil"?

I have absolutely no faith at all that any large company can really stick to some moral compass. Eventually money corrupts all. Any individual morality and sense of responsibility gets diluted to the point where it disappears completely.

I mean, let's take your reasoning to its logical conclusion: I think most would agree that not paying taxes isn't very ethical, does it mean that we shouldn't have any laws and regulations and controlling bodies surrounding these topics because it's a line "a tech company shouldn't cross"?

If you don't put a cop on the line and there's money on the other side I can assure you that it will be crossed. Raising outrage at the company is not an effective way to enforce the law (although it can work at times).

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