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How America Uses Its Land

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Re: How America Uses Its Land

#131

Post by phillc73 »

Aloha wrote: post #75
StillBored wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in Texas raising property taxes as such isn't the answer. Rather capping the amount a single owner/organization can claim in ag/etc exemptions, while making it easier for small 20 acre farms to claim the exemption. Right now what you have is the richest land owners paying the lowest rates, while owners of tiny suburban/rural lots get murdered. For example, I give you a few pieces of the 6d ranch, located on…

No one is doing any commercially meaningful farming (not even for a small business) on 20 acres. Consider for grazing use 2-6 acres per cow is needed. 4 cows, isnt even a blip. Nor can you farm most crops meaningfully on 20 acre plots either. On lot 1, most of the taxed value is derived from the improvements, not the land itself.

> Nor can you farm most crops meaningfully on 20 acre plots either.

Perhaps your definition of crop is too narrow. Something like hops is well suited to "commercial" sizes starting at 20 acres.[1]

Vineyards supplying a co-operative? 20 acres of fruit trees for boutique cider production?

I think there's probably quite a few examples of 20 acre crops which are sustainable commercially.

[1] "...EU competitive hop farms (more than 10 ha of hops) ..." https://www.dlib.si/stream/URN:NBN:SI:DOC-CWQINAJR/eaf94387-...

Re: How America Uses Its Land

#132

Post by huntie »

CalRobert wrote: post #113
Aloha wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one is doing any commercially meaningful farming (not even for a small business) on 20 acres. Consider for grazing use 2-6 acres per cow is needed. 4 cows, isnt even a blip. Nor can you farm most crops meaningfully on 20 acre plots either. On lot 1, most of the taxed value is derived from the improvements, not the land itself.

There appears to be at least one counterexample, if you count "supporting one's family" as commercially meaningful. Currently reading The Market Gardener and it's surprisingly fascinating for a guide to intensively cultivating on about 1.5 acres - about 140k CAD gross, 60k revenue on 1.5 acres - https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/18406251-the-market-gard... (the author) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Martin_Fort…

Thanks for the recommendation, I'm going to check it out.

Re: How America Uses Its Land

#133

Post by tcbawo »

poulsbohemian wrote: post #82
tcbawo wrote: post #18

How about a private company (Weyerhaeuser) owning 12.4 million acres of timberlands. It's about twice the size of Maryland!

Comparing their ownership to a state sounds like a lot, until you realize that Maryland is 12,400 square miles and that 12.4 million acres is really only 19,400 square miles (if my math is correct). Just a reminder that Alaska is 665,384 square miles by itself. So put in those terms, over the entire land mass of the US, Weyerhaeuser doesn't look so out of balance.

Not that it matters, but Maryland is 12,400 square miles by total area, but 9,700 in land area. Maybe Vermont (9,600/9,200) is a better example. Using either example, that's a lot of land!

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territ...

Also, here's an article with an interesting map of their holdings: https://www.opb.org/news/article/weyerhaeuser-plum-creek-tim...

Re: How America Uses Its Land

#134

Post by vfc1 »

Looking at that map, Between livestock pasture, feed and feed export it accounts for around 45% of the US. Food that we eat is only a small fraction.

Isn’t this a huge waste of resources, and completely unsustainable?

If we ate the produce directly instead of feeding it to cows and eating them, how many people could we feed?

What about the gigantic consumption of water this implies?

The link between this to global warming and climate change is undeniable.

Re: How America Uses Its Land

#135

Post by pen2l »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #123
hirundo wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suicide rates tend to be lower in developing countries. Don't you think that lifestyle is part of the reason? https://amp.businessinsider.com/images/535557fc6bb3f78245a35...

> Don't you think that lifestyle is part of the reason? Or lifespan. Cancer rates are also really low in many super-impoverished countries. Few survive long enough to get it.

A low caloric diet prevents cancer. “Eat less and you won’t get cancer.”

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2829867/

Re: How America Uses Its Land

#136

Post by vertex-four »

ianai wrote: post #129
eigenstuff wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, y'know, developed countries have more access to birth control...

You’re pointing out the mechanism. I’m talking about why people choose to not have children. This is not a disagreement.

The point of your parent comment is that the people in the developing world might also choose not to have children if they had realistic access to birth control - thus making the “why” incorrect. It could just be that having kids isn’t actually worth it.

Re: How America Uses Its Land

#138

Post by avoutthere »

Shivetya wrote: post #126
rayiner wrote: post #48

The one third being used for cows is misleading. Pasture is basically the Bureau of Land Management’s default use for the vast swaths of federal land. It’s like “here is this land, you’re allowed to graze on it with a permit.” That doesn’t produce that many cows—it’s more about politics and the fact that much of the land is good for little else besides growing grass. The real land use from growing meat comes from the…

I think a better map would be to show how much land is in private hands versus held by Federal and State governments. I bet people would be shocked, see this article from 2016 [1] [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/01/federal...

I've never understood how the federal government holding all of this land has held up in court. What is the constitutional justification for this?

Re: How America Uses Its Land

#139

Post by megaman22 »

vfc1 wrote: post #134

Looking at that map, Between livestock pasture, feed and feed export it accounts for around 45% of the US. Food that we eat is only a small fraction. Isn’t this a huge waste of resources, and completely unsustainable? If we ate the produce directly instead of feeding it to cows and eating them, how many people could we feed? What about the gigantic consumption of water this implies? The link between this to global wa…

You're comparing alfalfa and oranges. You're not going to grow wheat on pastureland that can support sheep or cattle. Much less other vegetables.

You're also making the assumption that agricultural land is a resource that needs conservation, when there is a massive surplus of it. We've allowed huge tracts to revert to forest on the east coast.

Re: How America Uses Its Land

#140

Post by dodgemustang »

megaman22 wrote: post #139
vfc1 wrote: post #134

Looking at that map, Between livestock pasture, feed and feed export it accounts for around 45% of the US. Food that we eat is only a small fraction. Isn’t this a huge waste of resources, and completely unsustainable? If we ate the produce directly instead of feeding it to cows and eating them, how many people could we feed? What about the gigantic consumption of water this implies? The link between this to global wa…

You're comparing alfalfa and oranges. You're not going to grow wheat on pastureland that can support sheep or cattle. Much less other vegetables. You're also making the assumption that agricultural land is a resource that needs conservation, when there is a massive surplus of it. We've allowed huge tracts to revert to forest on the east coast.

I'm sure I'm misunderstanding you but... How is conservation of agricultural land not important?

I mean, isn't not being good stewards of the land what gave us the dust bowl?

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