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Ex-SolarCity employees: We were fired after reporting millions in fake sales

arstechnica.com

101–110 of 194 posts

Re: Ex-SolarCity employees: We were fired after reporting millions in fake sales

#101

Why are we blaming the employees when these kind of things come from high pressure management. Everyone is aware the Elon works his employees to death at Tesla, SpaceX, and apparently SolarCity. I feel like these tech companies are great for consumers and shareholders, but employees are worked like dogs to keep the profit flowing.

>Why are we blaming the employees when these kind of things come from high pressure management.

Hypocrisy, pure and simple.

Go read how HackerNews reacted to the Wells Fargo scandal.

Re: Ex-SolarCity employees: We were fired after reporting millions in fake sales

#102
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every time a hurricane knocks out a town's electric grid and federal funds are used to repair it, that's a subsidy. When government authority to exercise eminent domain acquires easements or land to erect power distribution, that's a subsidy. This is anti-government fervor carried to absurdity. No man is an island. What is the point of government if not to provide care in disastrous situations? And yes this is the…

I don't think linuxftw was necessarily saying that government intervention is inappropriate. They were saying that the nature of government intervention is to distort the underlying economics. It is therefore unsurprising when businesses grow up around these temporary distortions rather than long term business models. It's the "price" we pay for whatever upsides there are to the subsidy.

Then I support this intervention. This idea that there is some "pure" form of undisturbed economics that is practiced outside the framework of achieving some larger social objective is also an absurd myth.

Re: Ex-SolarCity employees: We were fired after reporting millions in fake sales

#103

A trend that's been growing for quite a (long!) while now is exemplified by this article: " Tesla did not respond to Ars’ request for comment on Sunday. " Who in their right minds realistically expects any organisation to respond to some random journalistic enquiry on a Sunday ? The other major variant of this shyster tactic is along the lines of, "Company X failed to respond immediately when asked for comment." No c…

Tesla's PR team is pretty responsive to journalists requesting comment, unless it's something like this where it's up to Musk himself to decide how to respond. He's probably resisting the urge to launch a personal vendetta against the whistleblowers (or saboteurs) right now, if past behavior, and the consequences of past behavior are any indicator.

Re: Ex-SolarCity employees: We were fired after reporting millions in fake sales

#104
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It seems like the entire solar industry is focused more on extracting government subsidies than on creating long term revenue streams. Some might argue this is the exact nature of government subsidies. People are always going to make choices in their economic self-interest. Either solar needs to be the most cost effective solution for their energy needs, or the government needs to artificially inflate the cost of o…

I don't think you've sufficiently proven the argument which the rest of your statements hinge on: "People are always going to make choices in their economic self-interest". It's an attractive (if somewhat cynical) point, but it's no more reasonable than any other generalisation. Not very.

What? His argument doesn't require that statement to hold true. His statement only requires a very small percentage of people who're in the solar industry to make choices in their own economic self-interest.

Re: Ex-SolarCity employees: We were fired after reporting millions in fake sales

#105
post #31

My partner worked for various solar companies (But not Solar City) as a canvasser hoping to get some sales experience. As a result we got to see first hand how corrupt and underhanded their sales departments could be. Canvassers were exploited mercilessly and commissions never appeared as new requirements were added to the payouts. Paychecks bounced periodically. Canvassers would be told to go door to door in areas w…

> It seems like the entire solar industry is focused more on extracting government subsidies than on creating long term revenue streams. Some might argue this is the exact nature of government subsidies. People are always going to make choices in their economic self-interest. Either solar needs to be the most cost effective solution for their energy needs, or the government needs to artificially inflate the cost of o…

> Some might argue this is the exact nature of government subsidies.

I'm not sure why that's bad though. It's true it'd be nice if US science was unfettered by the constant funding-directed pressure to find novel ways to kill people (or support folks doing said killing), but it is true that it spurs research in a variety of areas.

> Either solar needs to be the most cost effective solution for their energy needs, or the government needs to artificially inflate the cost of other energy (or reduce any subsidies to other energy to make solar more competitive).

Solar's receiving less subsidy than most other forms of energy. The oil industry, in particular, receives massive subsidies (and military interventions abroad in some cases) and the current US government heavily favors the coal industry (which already receives a lot of monetary subsidy as well). SolarCity being somewhat unethical in defrauding sales is not unique to, you know, a subsidized business. It's a consequence of any insufficiently regulated industry where the penalty for fraud is less than the profit of fraud. It's a fundamental feature of capitalism when untethered from objective assessments of value.

> People are always going to make choices in their economic self-interest.

I hope people understand that this is actually a religious point, not a scientific one. The science says quite the opposite.

Re: Ex-SolarCity employees: We were fired after reporting millions in fake sales

#106
post #95
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you've sufficiently proven the argument which the rest of your statements hinge on: "People are always going to make choices in their economic self-interest". It's an attractive (if somewhat cynical) point, but it's no more reasonable than any other generalisation. Not very.

Its patently obvious. No sane individual will systematically go against their economy self interest.

[deleted]

Re: Ex-SolarCity employees: We were fired after reporting millions in fake sales

#107
post #95
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you've sufficiently proven the argument which the rest of your statements hinge on: "People are always going to make choices in their economic self-interest". It's an attractive (if somewhat cynical) point, but it's no more reasonable than any other generalisation. Not very.

Its patently obvious. No sane individual will systematically go against their economy self interest.

You may wish to look into behavioral economics [1], a system of psychology + decision making that looks deeply at how individuals often do go against their economic (and other) self-interests.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_economics

Re: Ex-SolarCity employees: We were fired after reporting millions in fake sales

#108
post #5

"This tactic allegedly resulted, this person said, in tens of hundreds of millions of dollars in phantom revenue." SolarCity had revenues of ~$480M in 2016 [0]. "Tens of hundreds of millions" would mean billions of dollars of phantom revenue. Even if that fake revenue would be distributed over a couple of years, it would have been a significant proportion of SolarCity's revenue. Just seems unrealistic that the SEC or…

I'm not trying to pass premature judgment on anything here but the article spans several broad categories. There is various verbal harassment mentioned, age discrimination is mentioned, perhaps some missing overtime pay or a misunderstanding about exempt employment, some cut backs on certain office benefits that a struggling company might normally do and then there is the "piece de resistance," outright financial fraud. Harassment is bad, period, I don't know what the girl running in her underwear had to do with anything, but it doesn't sound like something you want circulating in your workplace, these sound like really valid beefs.

So this company was bought and presumably some audits happened and there was some due diligence. From my personal experience, people who tend to get really wound up about not being paid overtime tend not to be the most knowledgeable about this sort of fraud. I might be wrong, but I think maybe some upset folks had some real complaints and they may have mixed in some rumors. If the fraud is remotely true, there is tons of missing money, companies tend to notice that.

Re: Ex-SolarCity employees: We were fired after reporting millions in fake sales

#109
post #31

My partner worked for various solar companies (But not Solar City) as a canvasser hoping to get some sales experience. As a result we got to see first hand how corrupt and underhanded their sales departments could be. Canvassers were exploited mercilessly and commissions never appeared as new requirements were added to the payouts. Paychecks bounced periodically. Canvassers would be told to go door to door in areas w…

> It seems like the entire solar industry is focused more on extracting government subsidies You made a long, correct rant about aggressive sales tactics, then shifted at the end to government subsidies. That is weird. I think more generally in businesses where you are selling a commodity, aggressive sketchy sales and marketing come to the fore, since you can't really differentiate any other way. And certainly, as we…

Unfortunately, government subsidies were the focus of the entire sales process. When they signed a contract they would usually finance the cost of the installation with a third party then pocket the subsidy and use it for payroll and operating costs. A lot of the missed paychecks were because they didn't have the money until they received the subsidy checks.

The entire business model was sketchy as heck. I don't know if it's the same across all the solar companies, but that seemed to be the case with the two he worked with.

Re: Ex-SolarCity employees: We were fired after reporting millions in fake sales

#110
post #57
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it in fact does put you at a hiring advantage because it will select for employees actually selling products instead of claiming to sell them.

Realized revenue will always be a percentage of unrealized revenue less than 100%. So by definition paying off of realized revenue at the same rate means you're going to be paying less in commissions to your sales staff. If I'm a salesperson looking for my next gig you're going to have to prove that you're paying a high enough commission for it to be worth it to me. But most importantly, why would a salesperson who c…

See also the Ben & Jerry's management salary thing.
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