In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party • Hacker News Board

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#221

Post by raesene9 » Tue, Jul 31, 2018, 12:51 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #161

raesene9 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whilst there may not be a perfect correlation between punctuality and efficiency, I'd suggest that it seems likely punctuality in business is more likely to be efficient than not. For example if you have 10 people attending a meeting and all must wait till they are present before starting (a very common occurrance) having all 10 people turn up promptly is more efficient than having 1-9 people waiting for the remainde…

> Whilst there may not be a perfect correlation between punctuality and efficiency, I'd suggest that it seems likely punctuality in business is more likely to be efficient than not. Efficient towards what, and what for? Those are good questions seldom asked.

Efficiency in terms of not wasting people's time. The ability in business for people to complete tasks in-line with when they were expected allows for better scheduling.

I'm not suggesting that everything in business benefits from being regimented but that meeting expectations allows for others to plan their time effectively.

Time where people are waiting for others to do work which should have been completed can often be wasted.

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#222

Post by Aaargh20318 » Tue, Jul 31, 2018, 12:51 PM UTC

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #6

I don't think this is just a Brazilian thing. When I throw parties in the US nobody shows up until 30 mins after the start time, and the peak of people showing up is between 60 and 90 minutes after start time. The exception to this is dinner parties, where people are much more punctual because they know you're planning the meal timeline.

> When I throw parties in the US nobody shows up until 30 mins after the start time

But if you expect people to show up 30 mins. late structurally, why not just give a time 30 minutes later and have them be on time ?

All this does is cause unnecessary ambiguity.

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#223

Post by raesene9 » Tue, Jul 31, 2018, 12:51 PM UTC

falsedan wrote: post #179

raesene9 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whilst there may not be a perfect correlation between punctuality and efficiency, I'd suggest that it seems likely punctuality in business is more likely to be efficient than not. For example if you have 10 people attending a meeting and all must wait till they are present before starting (a very common occurrance) having all 10 people turn up promptly is more efficient than having 1-9 people waiting for the remainde…

Even more efficient is: starting the meeting anyway; publishing minutes so people can choose to attend or not; inviting fewer attendees; not having meetings about things which can be resolved by the teams talking directly to each other in their day-to-day work.

Oh absolutely, I'm not suggesting that meetings are always well run or indeed necessary, but where they are held, time management is important to get people in and out as fast as possible, which improves efficiency.

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#224

Post by Izkata » Tue, Jul 31, 2018, 12:52 PM UTC

zaarn wrote: post #176

masklinn wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Mother Fucking Swiss" is a legendary post, and very reflective of experiencing swiss-german people: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/11pcs1/while_i_l...

That was quite an entertaining post. My grandma used to say that the difference between a Swiss and a German is that if we'd forget to cut the lawn, the neighbor would be annoyed after a week. In Switzerland they'd call the Police on day 2. Trains are also late in Germany. A lot. I blame DB. They come up with the silliest excuses too, like that one time were they claimed that the track bed had caught fire. I would ha…

> They come up with the silliest excuses too, like that one time were they claimed that the track bed had caught fire. I would have believed it if it wasn't -10°C in the dead winter while it snowed like crazy.

Here in Chicago, the tracks are intentionally lit on fire in the winter (so they don't develop an ice sheet, I think). Maybe the same thing, but whoever explained it was unfamiliar with the practice?

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#225

Post by raesene9 » Tue, Jul 31, 2018, 12:53 PM UTC

moduspol wrote: post #210

raesene9 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whilst there may not be a perfect correlation between punctuality and efficiency, I'd suggest that it seems likely punctuality in business is more likely to be efficient than not. For example if you have 10 people attending a meeting and all must wait till they are present before starting (a very common occurrance) having all 10 people turn up promptly is more efficient than having 1-9 people waiting for the remainde…

It's honestly blowing my mind that this point even needs to be argued. Of course being on time correlates with efficiency. Have they ever looked up a store's hours before going there? Or gone to see a movie? Or met with someone else to do... anything? Or utilized public transit? Of course it can be argued that, in a cosmic sense, maybe society is more "efficient" toward people relaxing and enjoying life if that train…

Indeed, it is a bit surprising to me that timeliness appears to be a debatable point in business.

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#226

Post by Matt3o12_ » Tue, Jul 31, 2018, 12:56 PM UTC

senorjazz wrote: post #206

MadSudaca wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to me that #1 is a matter of lack of responsibility. In the US if you dig a hole and someone falls in it because there were no signs, I think you'd get sued to hell. The company, if it survices, would find who's responsible for the bad decision of not putting any signs, and punish that person accordingly for their lack of foresight. Next time that or another person, if they learned from the mistake, will be…

because it is your responsibility not to walk blindly into a hole. Why the US is so blame happy, rather than personal responsibility, that is the question. -------------------- Just different cultures

They are many reasons why people fall into a hole if it is not clearly marked. Some people have bad sight and may not be able to see a hole but are able to see flashy signs. Should people who have bad sight not be able to navigate freely?

Furthermore, this is about driving and not walking, and during the night. It shouldn't come as a surprise that people are not able to see a black hole on black cement at 'high' speeds (50kph/30mph). Add a little bit of rain or fog, and it's just a recipe for disaster. Maybe if people are aware that workers do stuff like that, they are a little bit more careful but it's probably too late when you finally see it.

The problem here is that there is a culture that does not care very much about their action towards others and think it's not their responsibility and nothing is going to happen to them. While I liked my stay in Brazil a lot (although it was only for a few days), the difference is quite obvious.

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#227

Post by culot » Tue, Jul 31, 2018, 12:58 PM UTC

barry-cotter wrote: post #168

wozniacki wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Chinese had the reputation to be super reliable and men of their word, while the Japanese had the reputation to be unreliable and ready to cross you at the first opportunity. What has been the observation off late of those very same peoples? Have the perceptions markedly changed? If so, how?

I’ve lived in China for six years. The consensus among Western businesspeople is that if you have a joint venture it’s not a matter of if you’ll be screwed but when. Once you find a good contact in a company, someone who will deliver you the goods you wanted, at the time and place you wanted, in the correct quality and at the agreed price, you hold on to that relationship. Once they leave you have to go back to fine…

Communism does bad things to cultures

I read Paul Midler's "What's Wrong With China" recently, the followup to his "Poorly Made In China", and his research seems to indicate that communism and the Great Leap Forward are not the source of those aspects of Chinese culture, that those aspects go back much further.

Definitely a fascinating read.

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#228

Post by forkerenok » Tue, Jul 31, 2018, 12:59 PM UTC

senorjazz wrote: post #206

MadSudaca wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to me that #1 is a matter of lack of responsibility. In the US if you dig a hole and someone falls in it because there were no signs, I think you'd get sued to hell. The company, if it survices, would find who's responsible for the bad decision of not putting any signs, and punish that person accordingly for their lack of foresight. Next time that or another person, if they learned from the mistake, will be…

because it is your responsibility not to walk blindly into a hole. Why the US is so blame happy, rather than personal responsibility, that is the question. -------------------- Just different cultures

Well, it's actually both. We get a decent buffer of safety only if all parties take precautions.

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#229

Post by mirimir » Tue, Jul 31, 2018, 1:01 PM UTC

alokrai wrote: post #107

Richard Feynman on Brazil: 1. “That evening I went for a walk in town, and came upon a small crowd of people standing around a great big rectangular hole in the road—it had been “dug for sewer pipes, or something—and there, sitting exactly in the hole, was a car. It was marvelous: it fitted absolutely perfectly, with its roof level with the road. The workmen hadn’t bothered to put up any signs at the end of the day,…

I've also seen this in Mexico. Sometimes, roads just end, into holes and large rocks and equipment.

However, this is mainly an issue in rural areas. And even though there may be no signs, there's typically a line of small rocks, maybe 0.5 meter from the edge.

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#230

Post by zaarn » Tue, Jul 31, 2018, 1:02 PM UTC

Izkata wrote: post #224

zaarn wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was quite an entertaining post. My grandma used to say that the difference between a Swiss and a German is that if we'd forget to cut the lawn, the neighbor would be annoyed after a week. In Switzerland they'd call the Police on day 2. Trains are also late in Germany. A lot. I blame DB. They come up with the silliest excuses too, like that one time were they claimed that the track bed had caught fire. I would ha…

> They come up with the silliest excuses too, like that one time were they claimed that the track bed had caught fire. I would have believed it if it wasn't -10°C in the dead winter while it snowed like crazy. Here in Chicago, the tracks are intentionally lit on fire in the winter (so they don't develop an ice sheet, I think). Maybe the same thing, but whoever explained it was unfamiliar with the practice?

No I don't think they do that here, not that I observed it. The switches are heated though, since they need to move for the train.

There is also a lot of different snow clearing vehicles that go around in the worst areas.

We do have trainbed fires during dry summers at times (like currently) but not winter, it was just some excuse for lack of trains or otherwise produced delays.