São Paulo is a city of over 12 million people, the largest city in the southern hemisphere of our planet, and is almost 10% of the Brazilian population. Almost everyone I meet with in SP is on time for work related meetings. I haven't noticed a difference between SP, the UK, the USA, or many of the other places I've worked. Generalizing about an entire country when that generalization is wrong for its biggest city makes for a good headline, but it's not responsible journalism.
In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party
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Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party
#192Earlier quoted context omitted.
As to 1, no, it's neither 'education' nor 'lack of resources' really. It's a matter of conscientiousness and responsibility. Even if there were no signs immediately available, nobody with an ounce of decency would leave a large hole unmarked. Signs are not expensive, if they're not available it's because of a lack of intelligent and responsible acting somewhere else in in the value chain. As for #2, it's still a lack…
It's true that not putting up road signs doesn't tie clearly to education and resources. It's also true that societal education and resources over time correlates strongly with putting up road signs, as the Japan anecdote suggests.
They are all correlated and I'm not pointing fingers. A society in which nobody give a crap ... it's hard to find people that will consistently rise above.
Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party
#193Who shows up to a house party on time?
In London, I know very few parties that would really get started less than an hour after the publicised start time.
Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party
#194Brazil is a huge country and and saying Brazilians are always late is like saying all North Americans are ignorant of non-local history and cultures.
I have a profound respect for other people's time and demand the same respect for mine. This is not uncommon in Sao Paulo city.
Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party
#195Earlier quoted context omitted.
To point #1. That happens still to today. It is a matter of education and resources. Unfortunately, both are low in Brazil. To point #2. Any guest in Brazil will be treated differently during their visit. https://jornalistaheitormenezes.blogspot.com/2015/11/o-carna... has some interesting historical context about Feynman's trips to Brazil.
"It is a matter of education and resources" Education? Sure, but resources are in no way low in Brazil unless you mean very specific resource(s).
GDP per capita is $8600 compared to USA $57000. It's all relative.
Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party
#196I don't think this is just a Brazilian thing. When I throw parties in the US nobody shows up until 30 mins after the start time, and the peak of people showing up is between 60 and 90 minutes after start time. The exception to this is dinner parties, where people are much more punctual because they know you're planning the meal timeline.
If there's 20 people going to a party, does anyone think the "start time" is really when you're supposed to be there? I think of it more as "don't come before this time".
Yes, depending on where you're from. I was raised to show up at the start time for events, this is pretty common in the Midwest. If the host is someone you know, you'll often ask if you can show up early and help prepare.
When I was in California a few years ago I showed up to a party a few minutes before the invite time. Not only was I the only guest there for the first ~30 minutes, but the host clearly wasn't expecting anyone to show up at the given time.
Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party
#197Earlier quoted context omitted.
If there's 20 people going to a party, does anyone think the "start time" is really when you're supposed to be there? I think of it more as "don't come before this time".
Not german, but my father always taught us that you must always be early so you can be on-time, and that unless the host has made it clear arrival time was flexible one must be on-time. We have relatives who usually leave their home at the declared start-time (so they're at best half an hour late, usually an hour or two), they're by far the most disliked members of my extended family for this an other reasons. Arrivi…
We used to tell my mother a different time than everyone else for events (an hour early). She'd come right on time!
Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party
#198So how does that work with say doctors appointments?
Doctors will also see you after the apppointed time.
Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party
#199In the UK as a native Englishman I would be totally ok with people turning up late to a party/BBQ/whatever. No problem (although not for a dinner party where you need to prepare etc)
But if you agree to meet people at a certain time, then being more than 10-15 minutes late without letting the person know is just rude, selfish and inconsiderate. Sure problems come up - these days there is zero excuse to not let the people know you are going to be late and give them an estimated ETA.
By being deliberately/incompetently late in those scenarios where you've agreed on a time, you're telling the person whose time you are wasting that you value your time more than you value theirs - i.e. that you consider yourself and your time as more important than them, and so fuck you - I'll get there when I want and you can wait for me since I am the most important one in this meeting and you and your time is worthless...
Are you late because you are just a bit disorganised? Please get a grip make an effort because you're a grown up and the people you are meeting had to make an effort to get there too.
Are you late because you are just an arsehole? Take a long look at yourself in the mirror.
tl;dr - depends on context.
Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party
#200Richard Feynman on Brazil: 1. “That evening I went for a walk in town, and came upon a small crowd of people standing around a great big rectangular hole in the road—it had been “dug for sewer pipes, or something—and there, sitting exactly in the hole, was a car. It was marvelous: it fitted absolutely perfectly, with its roof level with the road. The workmen hadn’t bothered to put up any signs at the end of the day,…
To point #1. That happens still to today. It is a matter of education and resources. Unfortunately, both are low in Brazil. To point #2. Any guest in Brazil will be treated differently during their visit. https://jornalistaheitormenezes.blogspot.com/2015/11/o-carna... has some interesting historical context about Feynman's trips to Brazil.
It seems to me that #1 is a matter of lack of responsibility. In the US if you dig a hole and someone falls in it because there were no signs, I think you'd get sued to hell. The company, if it survices, would find who's responsible for the bad decision of not putting any signs, and punish that person accordingly for their lack of foresight. Next time that or another person, if they learned from the mistake, will be more careful.
Why is there no such focus towards responsibility in Brazil? That's the question imo.