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China is laying the groundwork for a post-American world order

washingtonpost.com

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Re: China is laying the groundwork for a post-American world order

#81

Post by jewelthief91 »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #15
Leary wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America has a number of enduring advantages: 1. Its geography means it's impervious to conventional invasions. 2. Its embracing culture will attract more immigrants. 3. It is an offshoot of western civilization and therefore has natural allies in Europe. China's advantages are: 1. It has a population that is 3-4 times the size of the US. 2. Its economy is still underdeveloped, therefore economic growth is a lot easie…

> 1. Its geography means it's impervious to conventional invasions. You'd have to be insane to invade China, though. "Never get involved in a land war in Asia". Especially never get involved in a land war in Asia against someone with an army the size of China's. > 2. Its embracing culture will attract more immigrants. This advantage the current administration seems to be working as hard as possible to destroy. As far…

The US would never need to invade China in the (horrific) event of a conflict. Simply cut off their access to oil by blocking the Strait of Malacca. Better yet do nothing and allow Japan do it for you.

Re: China is laying the groundwork for a post-American world order

#82

Post by jewelthief91 »

astebbin wrote: post #45
frockington wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an American I would be happy to see someone else take responsibility. If China thinks they can somehow bring stability to the Middle East then give them a shot. At least when they inevitably descend into chaos again it wont be us having to babysit. I think many Americans are hoping China tries to take a leadership role in Asia and near neighbors

>I think many Americans are hoping China tries to take a leadership role in Asia and near neighbors Could you elaborate on this? My impression was that China has recently been bullying its neighbors, particularly Vietnam and to some extent the Philippines, over oil and gas deposits in the South China Sea. I can't imagine that's great for regional stability. I also wonder if many Americans would want China to take on…

How do the American people benefit from protecting Vietnam and the Philippines? Not to sound trollish, but I genuinely do not see why spending billions in the region and antagonizing China really helps us.

Re: China is laying the groundwork for a post-American world order

#83

Post by FLUX-YOU »

merpnderp wrote: post #79
rando_supreme wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the risk of falling for troll bait, I'll ask anyways. What measurable metrics are you examining to come to the conclusion that Trump has had a net positive effect? Can you please point me to any primary source document in the EU parlament which outlines legislative action leading to growth in NATO? Who is our diplomatic negotiator in these talks? Do we have any commitment on any level? On the subject of trade, can…

Well, France and Germany have both acknowledged their NATO spending deficits and have pledged to increase them, with France actually signing legislation and Germany saying they improve their stance (hard to say no when at the time of the NATO summit they had 0 operational fighter jets): https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/07/08/france-germany-i... As for trade, negotiations are obviously ongoing, but it's only been…

Things are way too early to call on North Korea. I saw this today: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-sp...

Re: China is laying the groundwork for a post-American world order

#84

Post by dang »

grezql wrote: post #52
frockington wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an American I would be happy to see someone else take responsibility. If China thinks they can somehow bring stability to the Middle East then give them a shot. At least when they inevitably descend into chaos again it wont be us having to babysit. I think many Americans are hoping China tries to take a leadership role in Asia and near neighbors

[flagged]

Nationalistic flamewar will get your account banned here. Can you please not post like this to HN? You did it elsewhere recently as well, which is a problem.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: China is laying the groundwork for a post-American world order

#85

Post by astebbin »

jewelthief91 wrote: post #82
astebbin wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I think many Americans are hoping China tries to take a leadership role in Asia and near neighbors Could you elaborate on this? My impression was that China has recently been bullying its neighbors, particularly Vietnam and to some extent the Philippines, over oil and gas deposits in the South China Sea. I can't imagine that's great for regional stability. I also wonder if many Americans would want China to take on…

How do the American people benefit from protecting Vietnam and the Philippines? Not to sound trollish, but I genuinely do not see why spending billions in the region and antagonizing China really helps us.

As I understand it, an enormous percentage of global trade sails through the South China Sea. From a pragmatic standpoint, it behooves American interests to support the Vietnamese and Philippine territorial claims so that one nation (China) does not militarily and/or politically dominate such a vital trade route.

From an idealistic standpoint, America supports the notions of state sovereignty and the U.N. Convention on the Law of the Sea simply out of principle. Like Apple’s stance on customer data privacy, the U.S. government defends freedom as a matter of pragmatism first, and then talks up the altruistic angle :)

Re: China is laying the groundwork for a post-American world order

#86

Post by flukus »

gandhium wrote: post #78
dsfyu404ed wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>US will likely due to tax / deficit issues, not so different than the French aristocrats who refused to pay taxes in run-up to the revolution. Or you could see it as being like the USSR which drove itself into the ground by spending everyone's money (trying to keep up with the US) faster than everyone could create it. Tax/deficit problems can not be considered just tax problems or just spending problems because the…

> being like the USSR which drove itself into the ground by spending everyone's money (trying to keep up with the US) So US will spend their money on trying to keep up with... China? Russia? Japan? India?

> So US will spend their money on trying to keep up with... China? Russia? Japan? India?

At the moment the US is outspending everyone combined. As they catch up and economically and technologically it gets exponentially harder for the US to maintain their current dominance. China also gets more bang for it's buck, it's only trying to assert dominance of a small area but the US is spread globally.

A better analogy might be pre-WW1 Britain that tried to maintain a navy at least the size of the next world powers combined.

Re: China is laying the groundwork for a post-American world order

#87

Post by swarnie_ »

InfiniteBeing wrote: post #26
tengbretson wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I can be pretty confident in saying that a global super power not founded on enlightenment ideas will be an objectively worse place to live.

It's frightening to think of a world controlled by China although Western societies are heading in China's direction and left wingers have no problem eroding free speech rights...

I would consider myself to the right on the political spectrum although i know where left vs. right sit are a bit different in Europe vs. the US.

This site is very much America-centric so any criticisms of the holy land is taken poorly. If you actually reflected on the last 20 years without bias you would be able to understand why the developed world is considering a new flag to rally behind.

Re: China is laying the groundwork for a post-American world order

#88

Post by meschi »

everdev wrote: post #50
w0de0 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you'd have to be insane to invade China. Their massive army makes it mass suicide. Maintaining that deterrence is the the actual disadvantage to China - not the risk of invasion, but the cost of preventing invasion.

I don't think they're actually concerned about that. I think their standing force is more about building national unity and pride. Battles are rapidly migrating to the air (drones, missiles, etc.) and cyberspace.

You cannot fight in cyberspace when a foot soldier turns the server off.

Re: China is laying the groundwork for a post-American world order

#89

Post by merpnderp »

FLUX-YOU wrote: post #83
merpnderp wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, France and Germany have both acknowledged their NATO spending deficits and have pledged to increase them, with France actually signing legislation and Germany saying they improve their stance (hard to say no when at the time of the NATO summit they had 0 operational fighter jets): https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/07/08/france-germany-i... As for trade, negotiations are obviously ongoing, but it's only been…

Things are way too early to call on North Korea. I saw this today: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-sp...

I saw that too :( Still, Trump has gotten further than any president before him.

My whole point was this “burning bridges” and general miasma around Trump’s foreign policy is the result of ideology and hysteria instead of hard nosed observation of facts.

Re: China is laying the groundwork for a post-American world order

#90

Post by candiodari »

posting2fast wrote: post #72
frockington wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an American I would be happy to see someone else take responsibility. If China thinks they can somehow bring stability to the Middle East then give them a shot. At least when they inevitably descend into chaos again it wont be us having to babysit. I think many Americans are hoping China tries to take a leadership role in Asia and near neighbors

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17644657 > The Uighurs see themselves as a minority facing cultural, religious and economic discrimination. When Xinjiang was incorporated into the People's Republic of China in 1949, they comprised roughly 80 percent of the region's population. Controlled migration to Xinjiang of Han Chinese has reduced this share to 45 percent [..] > Anyone with a potentially suspicious data tra…

> You don't have to bring democracy to China, just don't look the other way or even help rationalize and justify it.

And isn't that exactly what most nations are doing ? Especially European countries and the EU, and more so as time goes on.

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