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Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

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Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#181
post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you've just described also sounds a lot like sleep apnea. Healthy, non-snorers can have it so might be worth doing a quick test.

Sleep apnea is one of the biggest unsolved problems in medicine. It effects 1 in 4 people and there's no good solution for it. I think this is an area where technology (and not drugs or surgery) can make a big difference.

You're half right. It's very common and very untreated.

But for most people, a CPAP machine is a great solution. There are few other serious medical conditions that can be more thoroughly addressed!

If you might have it, you really should look into it, there is a good chance your life can be turned around and improved more than you (pun intended) could dream of. Mine was!

Modern CPAP machines are quiet, comfortable, and only cover your nostrils. And they can save your life!

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#182
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is an excellent book. However, it doesn't contain a lot of practical advice (other than the 12 points at the end of the book, which were released already by National Sleep Association) Somewhat tangetial, check out "The Circadian Code" as well - a lot of more practical advice in this one. They actually disagree on couple of delicate points, so not sure how can one make up one's mind as to which one's correct (e.…

I think I'm a night Owl with DSPS. For the past few weeks I have been trying to shift my schedule to wake at 4:30AM, go running, eat within 6 hours (Time Restricted Eating), and repeat - but my body is rejecting this like an allergy - I just feel awful. I felt best running in the evening a little before sunset, getting back and eating within 6 hours, and going to bed around 2-3AM. I had to change my schedule because…

I recommend you to read "Why We Sleep", however try not to be discouraged when you think about your sleeping pattern and what the science says it damages, and how it is devastating, detrimental to your health and so on. It can be overwhelming a little. If I had to choose one, this is the book I'd recommend.

I've only got my experience with sleep deprivation and the methods I use to fix it. I had severe sleep deprivation and now I sleep 8 hours on average, with quality sleep.

I am a very light sleeper, on top of having problems falling asleep. This is what I did:

1) limiting the noise - I installed new windows and added new door that leads to my bedroom; I have a fan that I put next to me, put it on the highest speed and it absorbs any noise left. You can achieve this with a "white noise app", too.

2) completely dark room - I cover the windows outside, and then inside too (just in case any light escapes).

3) I fit my meals within 8 or 9 window as a part of TRE (Time-Restricted Eating) - my first meal is around 9AM. It does not have to be perfectly accurate (8:45, 9:15 acceptable)

4) strength training every day (assuming you are cardiovascularly fit); I do sprints as well (twice a week or so)

5) zero alcohol - it is one of the strongest REM suppressors

6) zero caffeine - very important. The average half-life of caffeine is 6 hours. That means that after 6 hours, you still have 50% caffeine in your body.

7) write down the following, and try to look at them from time to time: when you eat, what you eat, calories/macros breakdown, when you go to bed, when you fall asleep (approximately), when you wake-up, and a summary of the previous afternoon and night time - what you think is the reason for the sleep (or lack of) on the day of

8) try to fit in with your circadian rhythm. On average: we are at our peak 10AM-3PM - try to fit strenuous activities in this period (including heavy strength training - since I am a remote developer, I can do this).

9) I walk around 8-10 km every day, part of it in the morning, part of it around 20:00

10) try to limit blue light at night - some ideas: dim lights, orange/red glasses filter, orange/red light bulbs.

----- These were the major things that I did, and some combination of them seem to work. I don't know which ones precisely. Some things that didn't work for me:

1) some natural remedies like valerian tea, etc. - it made me worse, actually. 2) meditation - just doesn't work (for me). A lot of people swear by it.. 3) nothing of this sort: https://www.artofmanliness.com/articles/fall-asleep-fast/

Try to learn something from what you eat - but be brutally honest with yourself and write down everything that contains calories that you eat. I noticed that I sleep worse on the day I eat more sugars (and I hardly eat sugar at all!).

Hope this helps someone.. I know how hard it is without sleep.

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#183
post #155
post #85

While melatonin helped me, the results were inconsistent. However, 10,000IU of vitamin D3 before 10am (see e.g. [0] for discussion and analysis that do NOT support my regime) seem to consistently give me a good reliable sleep schedule. I was definitely not as thorough as Gwern, nor comparing to placebo - but for decades I have tried tens of different sleep aids, most of them useless, some working for a couple of week…

I take 5,000 IU of Vitamin D daily and 3 mg of Melatonin about an hour or so before bed. It has all but cured a lifetime of serious sleep issues.

I take 5000 D3 at 9 in the morning. It causes me to naturally wake up at 6 a.m. or even earlier, without feeling groggy.

If I take it when traveling, jet lag is greatly diminished and overcome much more rapidly. I switch to taking it 9 a.m. of the destination's local time. If 9 a.m. occurs during the flight, I take it then.

It's like an external clock pulse!

The first time I took 5000 D3, I made the mistake of doing it in the evening. My sleep that very night was quite strange, disturbed with weird dreams. I immediately clued in to the fact that morning might be better. Basically, mimicking the onset of daylight.

D3 is beneficial for exercise; it relieves that muscle soreness and tiredness and improves mental alertness. It helps beat those winter blues and gets you out there.

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#184
post #165
post #153

Couple anecdotal points: - Used to have to sleep problems - mainly just my mind racing with all the (stress of) things I had to do. The symptoms were trouble sleeping and/or waking in the middle of the night with instant thoughts of projects, task lists. - Melatonin didn't help me much. Maybe their effect was too subtle on me - maybe I was using the wrong dose as mentioned in the post. - Magnesium Glycinate pills bef…

My experience with Melatonin is similar to yours. I tried the 2.5 mg and the 5mg dosages. If anything they made my sleep even shallower in the sense, yeah I have my eyes closed but am fully aware of my thoughts and surroundings but am too lazy/tired to be physically active. It also gave me weird dreams (not that I mind). waking up was tiring because all night my mind was awake. I think its good for REM sleep but what…

Note that the article suggests the ideal dosage is 0.3 mg, and larger dosage might not have the desired effect.

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#185

Melatonin doses of the standard distribution seem great for crazy fucking dreams, but little else. Drinking two Rolling Rocks or PBR distilleries is more effective;

I did this for a decade. If you drink or smoke pot to sleep you will slowly go mad. They suppress deep sleep.

Yes, I'm always amazed at people who use pot to sleep. If I smoke I will be up for hours.

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if minimal fruit counts as a healthy diet

fruit is not healthy for you, contrary to what you may have traditionally heard. you can get everything you need, vitamins and minerals wise, from vegetables, without the sugar that comes with fruits.

>fruit is not healthy for you

https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/105/6/1462/4569801

Fruit consumption is inversely correlated with all-cause mortality as best we can tell. Probably something to be said about people who eat fruits being among the more health minded individuals as well and skewing results but it’s probably not “unhealthy” to eat fruits.

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#187

I regularly take long haul flights (12+ hours) and take Melatoin for Jet Lag. I'll take twice. With the flights I take this usually works out to before sleeping on the plane (which ideally is the same/close to bed-time at the destination). And then the first night at the destination. In combination with other tricks -- I've found it really effective.

Same here. I pop one as I get on the red eye flight back from the states to the UK, then once again half an hour before I go to bed at 10pm UK time, and the next day I'm back to normal.

If anything, I find going the other way harder now as I have little energy until midweek.

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the other tricks, I’ve always found jet lag horrendous.

I also use Melatonin for jetlag, but I usually prefer to do it just for the first and second night at the destination. On 12+ hrs flight I prefer a bland sleeping aid, as it is not directly working on the circadian rhythm (or at least that’s my experience). Other useful tricks: - ban alcohol altogether the day of the flight an possibly one day before and one after - order a special vegan meal during the flight, even…

The vegan meal trick is airline specific.

On BA for instance, if you're in premium economy or higher as long as you order your meal via their portal a few days before the flight they'll serve you first before offering what's left to everyone else.

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#189
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I didn't use an alarm clock I would be unemployed.

I've trained myself (and reworked my daily schedule) to stop using alarm clocks. Incidentally, next week will be 4 years since the last time I used one. And melatonin has been one of my main tools. Getting up by yourself instead of being jolted out of sleep is invaluable, especially if you do rest all the time you need.

Similarly, I haven't used one for more than a few months at a time for my entire life. Pushing forty at this point. I'll confess the winter months up here in Seattle can be tough. Sun isn't up til about 8ish, so it can be hard to realize what time it is.

In the summer, though, sun is up at 4:30. I don't know how folks sleep too late. Even when exhausted, sleeping past 7 is near impossible.

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#190
post #161
post #153

Couple anecdotal points: - Used to have to sleep problems - mainly just my mind racing with all the (stress of) things I had to do. The symptoms were trouble sleeping and/or waking in the middle of the night with instant thoughts of projects, task lists. - Melatonin didn't help me much. Maybe their effect was too subtle on me - maybe I was using the wrong dose as mentioned in the post. - Magnesium Glycinate pills bef…

I am sharing my experience because I know how awful sleep problems can be. I'm in my 30s and eat what many consider a very healthful diet - virtually no sugar, just veggies, high quality fats and proteins, and minimal fruit. I spend 7-9 hours in bed; yet wake up feeling exhausted every. single. day. I'd love to exercise, but I'm too continuously tired to get started. Melatonin, when taken via dissolving sublingual ta…

Have you got checked for sleep apnea?

Have you tried sleeping elsewhere? On a couch? What about sleeping in a semi-seated position? Would that work?

How's your weight? Does it go up or down?

Finally, if you are in bed for 30 minutes and you haven't fallen asleep, it's probably way better to either get up and do some stuff or to just accept that you won't be sleeping and just stay there and go through your imagination.

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