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Why are technical recruiters so clueless?

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Re: Why are technical recruiters so clueless?

#101

Post by KoZeN »

smiler wrote: post #31
KoZeN wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am convinced there are still many ways for recruiting to be fixed by disruptive startups I couldn't agree more. I've been actively trying to tackle this problem, so far without success, for a while now.

I notice you're a recruiter in the UK. I'm not in London / SE - are you seeing many companies accept remote workers? (I'm in the East Midlands, currently a remote worker, and don't want to give that up)

To be honest, I'm not seeing a huge amount of remote working opportunities at the moment. I can't really explain the trend but for the last 6 months I've only had 1 or 2 remote working roles.

Re: Why are technical recruiters so clueless?

#102

Post by KoZeN »

Timothee wrote: post #81
unshift wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

really, it puts you off that people who exchange time for money would like to get the most money possible for their time?

I'm not put off by someone maximizing the money they're getting for what they do, but I am a little bit by people who do what they do to maximize the money they're getting. Of course, it's a matter of personal taste and point-of-view... But "put off" might not have been the right word, maybe "disappointed" or "disinterested" would have been better. Basically, I saw swombat's question as a question from a developer in…

I could just imagine the real-life conversation, and know I'd think "oh ok... nevermind, I thought there was more to it".

Ask any recruiter why they do what they do and I can guarantee that every single person that makes more than £70k per annum will cite money as the primary reason they are in the game.

People become doctors to help cure sick people.

People become architects to design buildings.

People become teachers to educate children.

People become recruiters to make money.

It may seem like one would get into this business to help people find their perfect career and so on and to be honest with you, a lot of people have that exact intention when they start. Those that last more than a year in the industry will have lost sight of that original intention as the financial reward is far greater than the satisfaction gained through acting as a middleman between candidate and client.

Re: Why are technical recruiters so clueless?

#103

Post by KoZeN »

shalmanese wrote: post #64
KoZeN wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love recruitment, I honestly do. Primarily because of the money I make! I loved working as a developer but there was a distinct lack of social and professional interaction that eventually led to me looking at other options. It was satisfying completing a difficult project and seeing it implemented but I get infinitely more satisfaction from finding someone their perfect job as well as landing a juicy commission pay…

Do you have a github? I know that if a recruiter included a github link in their email, I would take a much more serious look.

Valid point.

There is a line though that I need to be careful not to cross.

Someone elsewhere on this thread made the point that technical understanding doesn't automatically equate to an excellent technical recruiter as sales/communication ability is just as important.

As much as I want my clients to understand that I'm not a wannabe who drops in a few buzz words to sound knowledgeable I am also not just a code monkey dressed up in a suit.

Re: Why are technical recruiters so clueless?

#104

Post by KoZeN »

lsc wrote: post #74

Why are technical recruiters so clueless? because technical recruiters, contrary to popular belief, are not hired to get the best candidates. Technical recruiters (and agencies) are hired to give the middle manager denyability if a hiring mistake is made. I mean, if you hire your brother's friend and he turns out to be some kind of crack fiend who ebays your spare parts bin for more drugs, well, you've got a fairly g…

I can see your point but unfortunately that's absolute rubbish.

There is a ridiculously small number of people who pay silly money to recruiters to cover nepotism but the reality is that employers hand over five figure sums to recruiters because they don't want to trawl through hundreds of CV's in the hope of finding the right candidate over the space of a few weeks.

Sit with me for an hour discussing a senior level role and I will have three incredible CV's sitting on your desk within a week. If the right person for the job is one of those three, great, now pay me ridiculous money, otherwise it hasn't cost you a penny.

Re: Why are technical recruiters so clueless?

#105

Post by manish »

peteforde wrote: post #63

I'm disappointed to see someone as smart as David casually leaning on a stereotype like "shady Russians". I'm confident that he wouldn't have said "sneaky Jews" or "naive Canadians" or "cheap Mexicans".

DHH is not exactly known for being politically correct.

Re: Why are technical recruiters so clueless?

#106

Post by brudgers »

lsc wrote: post #80
brudgers wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shot down by whom? There's nothing preventing someone from hanging a shingle as a recruiter. That's what I was getting at. Edit: Recruiting is one of those "make your own jobs" Ehrenreich describes in Bait and Switch .

Shot down by whom? the company I was attempting to recruit for. I've got at least one example where I offered a person I knew was good to a company that had hired me in the past. He was rejected without an interview. Being as I couldn't help the guy, I recommended him to an agency that worked with that company, and he got the job. Everyone seemed pretty happy with the deal, the guy stayed on for several years and fin…

A good list of candidates is a starting point, but it is still necessary to sell employers.

Most recruiters don't do either. They swing for the fences using spam as in the article. Some prey on desperation and slide towards 419 territory with career coaching and similar services.

Re: Why are technical recruiters so clueless?

#107

Post by ig1 »

KoZeN wrote: post #100
ig1 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm working on a developer recruitment based startup at the moment, if you want to grab coffee sometime give me a shout. I'm not in London at the moment but I should be shortly (i.e. as soon as I can find somewhere in London to live !)

Sounds like a plan. One point on your site though: Brand has huge influence when trying to hire the best, so unlike recruiters we don't hide your brand. There are two reasons why recruiters don't advertise company names: 1) They don't want the competition muscling in. 2) A lot of companies don't want their brand advertised as they don't want the competition to know that they are hiring at certain levels and they also…

And the third reason: to stop the candidate going direct to the company.

But from a candidates viewpoint they don't really care what reason the recruiter has for hiding the company name, it takes away valuable information from them when looking at job ads.

There are always going to be some companies who prefer not to be named (stealth hedge funds, etc.) but I think they're in a relatively small minority.

I suspect for the most part avoiding letting the competition know what you're hiring for is fairly pointless, as the first thing your recruiter is going to do is to call the best potential candidates and pitch them the job. And as it turns out the best potential candidates are often most likely to be working for your competitors.

When I was working in investment banking and got a call for a recruiter hiring for a rival trading desk I frequently pumped them for information which we could use for our own advantage. I'm pretty sure everyone else does that as well.

Re: Why are technical recruiters so clueless?

#109

Post by lsc »

KoZeN wrote: post #104
lsc wrote: post #74

Why are technical recruiters so clueless? because technical recruiters, contrary to popular belief, are not hired to get the best candidates. Technical recruiters (and agencies) are hired to give the middle manager denyability if a hiring mistake is made. I mean, if you hire your brother's friend and he turns out to be some kind of crack fiend who ebays your spare parts bin for more drugs, well, you've got a fairly g…

I can see your point but unfortunately that's absolute rubbish. There is a ridiculously small number of people who pay silly money to recruiters to cover nepotism but the reality is that employers hand over five figure sums to recruiters because they don't want to trawl through hundreds of CV's in the hope of finding the right candidate over the space of a few weeks. Sit with me for an hour discussing a senior level…

It is quite possible that I'm just sour grapeing the industry because I have failed myself several times. my experience:

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1761329

In this case, I just don't understand why they'd not take the person when I suggested them (I think they had reason to respect and trust my opinion; I had been working for them for a while, giving good advice. In fact, all this was in preparation for me leaving; after I had been at the new job for a year or so they spent considerable effort and money getting me to come back.)

I was trying to get them to hire someone who worked for me for some time (which is to say someone who's work habits and skills I knew well) to fill the position I was leaving vacant.

The agency in question had a long history of sending us people for mid to senior sysadmin positions who I wouldn't hire for $15/hr.

So yeah, I am missing something about how the industry works, and middle management covering it's ass fits the symptoms perfectly.

Obviously there could be something else going on that I don't understand.

Re: Why are technical recruiters so clueless?

#110

Post by rmc »

KoZeN wrote: post #16
edw519 wrote: post #10

Why are technical recruiters so clueless? Because they are a little less clueless than most HR departments. Are there any recruiters working in technology who get it? Yes. The top 1 or 2%. The bell curve of competency for recruiters is a lot steeper at the high end, so finding one who "gets it" is difficult. So when you do, keep them. Whether you're hiring or looking, they can change your life. The problem with this…

I'm a technical recruiter and I agree with the majority of this post to be honest. My background: 2.1 in Software Development from a leading Uni in Ireland. 2 years experience as a web developer for a medium sized Irish software firm and I've been in recruitment for just over 2 years now. The amount of fellow recruiters I come across who believe java & javascript are one and the same for example is ridiculous. The ma…

How do you convince companies and potential candidates that you know your stuff?
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