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Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

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Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#141

Post by clumsysmurf »

rofo1 wrote: post #108
skadamat wrote: post #8

Every single person here, if your serious about diving into the science of sleep, should read Matthew Walker's book: Why We Sleep: https://www.amazon.com/Why-We-Sleep-Unlocking-Dreams/dp/1501... His interview on Joe Rogan is a good summary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwaWilO_Pig He covers everything from why we sleep (obv), naps, melatonin, etc. I've just finished it and really enjoyed it.

That is an excellent book. However, it doesn't contain a lot of practical advice (other than the 12 points at the end of the book, which were released already by National Sleep Association) Somewhat tangetial, check out "The Circadian Code" as well - a lot of more practical advice in this one. They actually disagree on couple of delicate points, so not sure how can one make up one's mind as to which one's correct (e.…

I think I'm a night Owl with DSPS. For the past few weeks I have been trying to shift my schedule to wake at 4:30AM, go running, eat within 6 hours (Time Restricted Eating), and repeat - but my body is rejecting this like an allergy - I just feel awful.

I felt best running in the evening a little before sunset, getting back and eating within 6 hours, and going to bed around 2-3AM.

I had to change my schedule because we have bad Ozone problems in Phoenix AZ, so O3 around sunset was terribad — not worth running (if it was for health, anyhow).

Which book do you recommend? I feel like I'm fighting my body; since I began "waking" at 4AM (I think I'm already kinda awake) I can't sleep for more than 1-2 hours and get tired around 2PM. If I fall asleep at 2PM then I REALLY sleep, for many hours, and wake around 8PM.

Its a total mess.

I'm doing everything I know how: be in the sun early, melatonin, activity early, calories early, TRE, avoid blue light before bed, but my body still seems to reject the early bird protocol.

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#142

Post by contravariant »

yosito wrote: post #32

I'm reading HN because I have insomnia after upping my Melatonin dose from 2.5mg to 5mg at the recommendation of my psychiatrist. I've never had the early morning jolt of energy until the last couple of days. Maybe I'll drop my dosage down to 1.75mg tomorrow. That's about the lowest I can get with these 10mg pills.

According to the article the effect seems to plateau or maybe even peak at around 0.3 mg (0.3 mg being mentioned most often). You could try dissolving a pill and measuring it into 1/30ths.

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#143

Post by gingerlime »

gingerlime wrote: post #67

Anyone knows why Melatonin is available so easily in the US, but you need a prescription for it in Europe? (I haven’t asked my GP though)

Thanks for the answers. Strange that different EU countries seem to regulate differently. And then I guess I can legally order it online from Italy, France, Spain or Hungary, and get it delivered to Germany. But not buy it locally...

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#144

Post by TACIXAT »

I have cut out sugar and caffeine for dietary reasons and my sleep schedule did not improve at all. I tried those red shift apps and they did not change my sleep schedule. The last few weeks I was not working on my computer late at night and got tired at a reasonable time. Now that I am back working on my side project, having interesting problems to solve (one more feature before bed!) and the bright screen, I am starting to stay up late again.

I notice when I do everything right I don't have a problem waking up before 8 hours. Normally I shoot for 8:30 and have trouble going to sleep and getting up. Also when I am in a good sleep schedule I sometimes wake up in the middle of the night, use the restroom, meditate if I'm awake enough, then go back to sleep.

I am sad to say that with most of the other factors controlled, bright screens are the likely cause of my sleep issues. This is hard for me because screen is life.

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#145

Post by haukilup »

Angostura wrote: post #79
ianai wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, it took a solid two weeks before I saw a regulation of my sleep pattern. Same time of day, 3 hours before I wanted to sleep, turning off all screens and eventually covering my eyes with a sleeping mask. Time released, low (correct) dosing too. Too much melatonin like pushes your brain past sleep.

The take-away from that sounds as if you found a sleeping-mask helpful, but there's not much evidence that melatonin had any effect.

> The take-away from that sounds as if you found a sleeping-mask helpful, but there's not much evidence that melatonin had any effect.

How can you reasonably conclude anything from your position, having only read that short comment? They have all the context and data and came to their conclusion. It might or might not be correct, but you're in no place to refute them on the topic of what has helped them personally.

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#146

Post by themodelplumber »

TACIXAT wrote: post #144

I have cut out sugar and caffeine for dietary reasons and my sleep schedule did not improve at all. I tried those red shift apps and they did not change my sleep schedule. The last few weeks I was not working on my computer late at night and got tired at a reasonable time. Now that I am back working on my side project, having interesting problems to solve (one more feature before bed!) and the bright screen, I am sta…

I'm not sure I understand, but I want to: Do you become engaged in a project and fall asleep later because it's hard to drop the project, or do you become engaged in a project and use a bright screen and the screen causes you (through some screen-body interface mechanism) to fall asleep later?

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#147

Post by paulie_a »

mikestew wrote: post #52
astronautjones wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kroger sells 10 mg dissolvable tablets right now (and it's on sale!) - it definitely made me sleep but totally obliterated my metabolism when i was taking it. regulation is definitely needed

10mg?! Holy smokes, 3mg can turn me into a zombie the next day. Oh, I sleep well, but so do the undead.

At one point I was taking 40mg.

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#148

Post by thesumofall »

rofo1 wrote: post #108
skadamat wrote: post #8

Every single person here, if your serious about diving into the science of sleep, should read Matthew Walker's book: Why We Sleep: https://www.amazon.com/Why-We-Sleep-Unlocking-Dreams/dp/1501... His interview on Joe Rogan is a good summary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwaWilO_Pig He covers everything from why we sleep (obv), naps, melatonin, etc. I've just finished it and really enjoyed it.

That is an excellent book. However, it doesn't contain a lot of practical advice (other than the 12 points at the end of the book, which were released already by National Sleep Association) Somewhat tangetial, check out "The Circadian Code" as well - a lot of more practical advice in this one. They actually disagree on couple of delicate points, so not sure how can one make up one's mind as to which one's correct (e.…

Does anyone have links to solid studies that provide some better answers if there is a significant share of people who can live on little sleep? As they tell you that you won’t recognize yourself if you’ve slept enough, I don’t quite trust my instincts

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#149

Post by jwilliams »

andy_ppp wrote: post #109
jwilliams wrote: post #100

I regularly take long haul flights (12+ hours) and take Melatoin for Jet Lag. I'll take twice. With the flights I take this usually works out to before sleeping on the plane (which ideally is the same/close to bed-time at the destination). And then the first night at the destination. In combination with other tricks -- I've found it really effective.

What are the other tricks, I’ve always found jet lag horrendous.

Some of these are probably very personal, but have worked for me.

- I try to arrive in the AM, stay up all day, and walk around as much as possible. Ideally walk in the sun. By the end of the day I'm shattered and usually will sleep well. Often I'm traveling for work, so I'll head direct to the office and work to keep busy. That first day can be tough, but after a couple of dips you can power though. After that you're pretty well set.

- I never nap (or even lie down) during the first day, that's always the thing that throws me off.

- For the flight: I have earplugs, noise cancelling headphones, and a heavy-duty eye mask. On occasion I'll play something calm on the headphones, but often it's just unplugged.

- I have one of these weird neck pillows - https://trtltravel.com/products/trtl-travel-pillow - works well for me as it stabilizes the head. If find the actual "pillows" don't really work.

- I try to eat in (or close to) the target time-zone a day before. On the plane I'll eat for sure, but veer to something light. I find the full meals make me lethargic the next day. Definitely eat at the "right times" when you arrive.

- I drink plenty of water, but I don't go crazy - I used to drink too much and my bladder would wake me up. I'll usually work out how much I want to/should drink (e.g.. two bottles) and then ration over the flight.

- I do have a small wine and sleeping tablets on the plane. Realize that's not for everyone, however (and probably unwise for some). But seems to work for me.

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#150

Post by nabla9 »

rofo1 wrote: post #108
skadamat wrote: post #8

Every single person here, if your serious about diving into the science of sleep, should read Matthew Walker's book: Why We Sleep: https://www.amazon.com/Why-We-Sleep-Unlocking-Dreams/dp/1501... His interview on Joe Rogan is a good summary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwaWilO_Pig He covers everything from why we sleep (obv), naps, melatonin, etc. I've just finished it and really enjoyed it.

That is an excellent book. However, it doesn't contain a lot of practical advice (other than the 12 points at the end of the book, which were released already by National Sleep Association) Somewhat tangetial, check out "The Circadian Code" as well - a lot of more practical advice in this one. They actually disagree on couple of delicate points, so not sure how can one make up one's mind as to which one's correct (e.…

Mice have very fast metabolism. Converting mouse models to humans requires adjustment.

There is some evidence that for humans eating all calories within 4 hour window might have similar effects.

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