Sex Scandal Toppled a Silicon Valley Chief. Investors Say, So What? • Hacker News Board

Re: Sex Scandal Toppled a Silicon Valley Chief. Investors Say, So What?

#21

Post by rayiner » Sat, Jul 28, 2018, 8:38 PM UTC

cycrutchfield wrote: post #13

jchw wrote: post #10

>Mr. Cagney was romantically involved with an employee, even though he had previously told directors that he was not involved in any extramarital workplace relationships Okay...? If that's literally the extent of what they found then this is kind of a non-story. Calling it a "sex scandal" is even quite clickbaity in my opinion. Like, yes, there is a conflict of interest. Potential for abuse or coercion. But nowhere d…

Breaking promises and lying to your board of directors is a non-story?

It is on HN, where, for some inexplicable reason, people are really concerned about the idea that CEOs might have to find relationships somewhere outside their company. Lying to the board? How else was he supposed to get a date!

Re: Sex Scandal Toppled a Silicon Valley Chief. Investors Say, So What?

#22

Post by rmason » Sat, Jul 28, 2018, 8:38 PM UTC

toomchsauce wrote: post #3

He wasn’t sexually assaulting people he just dated someone at work. The article acts like if you break the workplace dating policy you should never work again or have to come crawling back. Would view this as a standard firing for him breaking the rules not really a #MeToo where he’s supposed to go into exile on MeToo island

He lied to his board. So if you're a board member that breaks trust and you've got to ask what else is he lying about?

Re: Sex Scandal Toppled a Silicon Valley Chief. Investors Say, So What?

#23

Post by ryanmarsh » Sat, Jul 28, 2018, 8:39 PM UTC

cycrutchfield wrote: post #18

toomchsauce wrote: post #3

He wasn’t sexually assaulting people he just dated someone at work. The article acts like if you break the workplace dating policy you should never work again or have to come crawling back. Would view this as a standard firing for him breaking the rules not really a #MeToo where he’s supposed to go into exile on MeToo island

>He wasn’t sexually assaulting people he just dated someone at work. He was also misusing corporate funds to pursue subordinates, serially lying to his board of directors, and breaking a pledge he had made to them. That's the reason why he was "fired". It was not simply because he had an affair.

serially lying to his board of directors

I was once told, “as the CEO your job is to keep the board completely snowed so you can run the company without interference”.

Honestly I thought this was table stakes in the valley.

Re: Sex Scandal Toppled a Silicon Valley Chief. Investors Say, So What?

#24

Post by kolbe » Sat, Jul 28, 2018, 8:39 PM UTC

cycrutchfield wrote: post #11

bumholio wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a bullshit made-up rule, designed by corporate lawyers who want to remove any possibility of a lawsuit. There's nothing immoral about dating an employee; it's a risky situation because the employee can feel pressured and harassed, or it can lead to conflicts of interest, undeserved promotions or bonuses etc. That being said, if both persons are mature and cautious, the sky will not fall.

Who said anything about morality? This is precisely about conflicts of interest, mismatched power dynamics, and potential abuse of authority. It is a situation that should be avoided at all costs because it can be exceedingly corrosive for an organization.

So, should we also disallow any other conflicting personal relationships up the chain of command? Where do we stop? Romantic relationships? Family? Friends? All of them create the same conflicts of interest and mismatches power dynamics.

Re: Sex Scandal Toppled a Silicon Valley Chief. Investors Say, So What?

#25

Post by ryanmarsh » Sat, Jul 28, 2018, 8:40 PM UTC

vkou wrote: post #5

toomchsauce wrote: post #3

He wasn’t sexually assaulting people he just dated someone at work. The article acts like if you break the workplace dating policy you should never work again or have to come crawling back. Would view this as a standard firing for him breaking the rules not really a #MeToo where he’s supposed to go into exile on MeToo island

> He wasn’t sexually assaulting people he just dated someone at work. You can date people at work, but you cannot date people in your reporting chain. That means that if you're the CEO, you cannot date people at work. Tough shit, there's 7 billion other people in the world.

Tell that to Melinda Gates.

Re: Sex Scandal Toppled a Silicon Valley Chief. Investors Say, So What?

#26

Post by otherworld » Sat, Jul 28, 2018, 8:44 PM UTC

toomchsauce wrote: post #3

He wasn’t sexually assaulting people he just dated someone at work. The article acts like if you break the workplace dating policy you should never work again or have to come crawling back. Would view this as a standard firing for him breaking the rules not really a #MeToo where he’s supposed to go into exile on MeToo island

I agree. We're living in increasingly socially conservative times. Somewhat ironically this seems to be due to the moral superiority of the "left" rather than the traditionalism associated with the right.

I also find the implicit assumption that all people who break the current moral codes of the day (even if they did so in the past!) should be henceforth unemployable and the subject of social outrage.

Re: Sex Scandal Toppled a Silicon Valley Chief. Investors Say, So What?

#27

Post by exogeny » Sat, Jul 28, 2018, 8:44 PM UTC

jchw wrote: post #10

>Mr. Cagney was romantically involved with an employee, even though he had previously told directors that he was not involved in any extramarital workplace relationships Okay...? If that's literally the extent of what they found then this is kind of a non-story. Calling it a "sex scandal" is even quite clickbaity in my opinion. Like, yes, there is a conflict of interest. Potential for abuse or coercion. But nowhere d…

Again, it's not really about the relationship. It's about misusing company funds for it, not to mention lying to HR and the board about it.

The tone of the comments on this thread so far is basically: if I can’t lie, embezzle, break multiple company regulations, and expose both myself and the company to sexual harassment charges, how am I ever going to meet Mrs. Right? I hope you understand how insane that is.

Re: Sex Scandal Toppled a Silicon Valley Chief. Investors Say, So What?

#28

Post by rococode » Sat, Jul 28, 2018, 8:45 PM UTC

I feel like this article should have quoted some lines from the earlier article (which was linked): https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/12/technology/sofi-chief-exe...

It goes into much more detail on the circumstances of Cagney leaving SoFi. The "romantically involved with an employee" phrasing in this article makes it sounds like he was just dating an employee. I think that weakens the point that's trying to be made, since many people don't equate "dating an employee" with "sex scandal". The earlier article raises additional concerns suggesting that dating one employee was not the only problem.

Re: Sex Scandal Toppled a Silicon Valley Chief. Investors Say, So What?

#29

Post by rayiner » Sat, Jul 28, 2018, 8:53 PM UTC

otherworld wrote: post #26

toomchsauce wrote: post #3

He wasn’t sexually assaulting people he just dated someone at work. The article acts like if you break the workplace dating policy you should never work again or have to come crawling back. Would view this as a standard firing for him breaking the rules not really a #MeToo where he’s supposed to go into exile on MeToo island

I agree. We're living in increasingly socially conservative times. Somewhat ironically this seems to be due to the moral superiority of the "left" rather than the traditionalism associated with the right. I also find the implicit assumption that all people who break the current moral codes of the day (even if they did so in the past!) should be henceforth unemployable and the subject of social outrage.

What we're living in is the vindication of Andrea Dworkin's views about the sexual revolution: https://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/2013/03/how-the-se.... Women are renegotiating the rules in a way that isn't so one-sidedly beneficial to men. Part of that is putting constraints on when and where sexual propositioning is appropriate (and it's not appropriate in the workplace).

Re: Sex Scandal Toppled a Silicon Valley Chief. Investors Say, So What?

#30

Post by jchw » Sat, Jul 28, 2018, 8:54 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #21

cycrutchfield wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Breaking promises and lying to your board of directors is a non-story?

It is on HN, where, for some inexplicable reason, people are really concerned about the idea that CEOs might have to find relationships somewhere outside their company. Lying to the board? How else was he supposed to get a date!

I'm not defending this person at all, I don't even know who they are! I'm saying that what they're deriding this person for doesn't really justify exasperation over the fact that investors don't care. The mere act of having engaged in a relationship that would cause a conflict of interest was almost certainly handled in some form.

Again, don't know this person. For all I know, they deserve to be lambasted. This article, though, falls short of making that case by a great deal.