Sex Scandal Toppled a Silicon Valley Chief. Investors Say, So What? • Hacker News Board

Re: Sex Scandal Toppled a Silicon Valley Chief. Investors Say, So What?

#11

Post by cycrutchfield » Sat, Jul 28, 2018, 8:32 PM UTC

bumholio wrote: post #6

vkou wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He wasn’t sexually assaulting people he just dated someone at work. You can date people at work, but you cannot date people in your reporting chain. That means that if you're the CEO, you cannot date people at work. Tough shit, there's 7 billion other people in the world.

That's a bullshit made-up rule, designed by corporate lawyers who want to remove any possibility of a lawsuit. There's nothing immoral about dating an employee; it's a risky situation because the employee can feel pressured and harassed, or it can lead to conflicts of interest, undeserved promotions or bonuses etc. That being said, if both persons are mature and cautious, the sky will not fall.

Who said anything about morality? This is precisely about conflicts of interest, mismatched power dynamics, and potential abuse of authority. It is a situation that should be avoided at all costs because it can be exceedingly corrosive for an organization.

Re: Sex Scandal Toppled a Silicon Valley Chief. Investors Say, So What?

#12

Post by saagarjha » Sat, Jul 28, 2018, 8:32 PM UTC

vkou wrote: post #5

toomchsauce wrote: post #3

He wasn’t sexually assaulting people he just dated someone at work. The article acts like if you break the workplace dating policy you should never work again or have to come crawling back. Would view this as a standard firing for him breaking the rules not really a #MeToo where he’s supposed to go into exile on MeToo island

> He wasn’t sexually assaulting people he just dated someone at work. You can date people at work, but you cannot date people in your reporting chain. That means that if you're the CEO, you cannot date people at work. Tough shit, there's 7 billion other people in the world.

That's not inherently sexual assault. Does it have the opportunity to go wrong? Sure, if your relationship becomes linked with career advancement, and especially if it's coerced. But as long as that's not present I don't see any assault going on here.

Re: Sex Scandal Toppled a Silicon Valley Chief. Investors Say, So What?

#13

Post by cycrutchfield » Sat, Jul 28, 2018, 8:33 PM UTC

jchw wrote: post #10

>Mr. Cagney was romantically involved with an employee, even though he had previously told directors that he was not involved in any extramarital workplace relationships Okay...? If that's literally the extent of what they found then this is kind of a non-story. Calling it a "sex scandal" is even quite clickbaity in my opinion. Like, yes, there is a conflict of interest. Potential for abuse or coercion. But nowhere d…

Breaking promises and lying to your board of directors is a non-story?

Re: Sex Scandal Toppled a Silicon Valley Chief. Investors Say, So What?

#14

Post by kurthr » Sat, Jul 28, 2018, 8:33 PM UTC

bumholio wrote: post #6

vkou wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He wasn’t sexually assaulting people he just dated someone at work. You can date people at work, but you cannot date people in your reporting chain. That means that if you're the CEO, you cannot date people at work. Tough shit, there's 7 billion other people in the world.

That's a bullshit made-up rule, designed by corporate lawyers who want to remove any possibility of a lawsuit. There's nothing immoral about dating an employee; it's a risky situation because the employee can feel pressured and harassed, or it can lead to conflicts of interest, undeserved promotions or bonuses etc. That being said, if both persons are mature and cautious, the sky will not fall.

Exactly, I've seen lots of couples who met at or were both hired into the same group and sometimes reporting to each orher... a few times it went badly because they couldn't be reasonable and self-aware. Mostly it went fine and they were very productive, conscientious, and easy to work with. It depends on the people, and I see it as only one of many possible personel problems.

Re: Sex Scandal Toppled a Silicon Valley Chief. Investors Say, So What?

#15

Post by rayiner » Sat, Jul 28, 2018, 8:33 PM UTC

toomchsauce wrote: post #3

He wasn’t sexually assaulting people he just dated someone at work. The article acts like if you break the workplace dating policy you should never work again or have to come crawling back. Would view this as a standard firing for him breaking the rules not really a #MeToo where he’s supposed to go into exile on MeToo island

The article is about sexual harassment, not sexual assault:

> A year into SoFi’s life, the company’s board learned about Mr. Cagney’s personal behavior. In 2012, the board settled with an executive assistant who had received sexually explicit text messages from Mr. Cagney, The New York Times previously reported.

That is, in fact, behavior that should engender serious consequences. (Also lying to the board about it).

Also, there is no such thing as a CEO "just dating" a subordinate. It's incredibly unfair to the person involved (who might get into the relationship out of concern for what happens to her job if she reject's the CEO's advances).

Even if the relationship is totally on the up and up, it's unfair to everyone else, and in this case was a diversion of corporate resources for illegitimate purposes:

> he had used company resources to pursue a romantic relationship with an employee, the people said. Mr. Cagney said he had previously suggested that employee as a promising candidate for chief financial officer.

Re: Sex Scandal Toppled a Silicon Valley Chief. Investors Say, So What?

#16

Post by saagarjha » Sat, Jul 28, 2018, 8:34 PM UTC

vkou wrote: post #4

exogeny wrote: post #2

Can't say that I love that the article clearly takes a "Can you believe this bullshit?" tone, but it's hard to conclude anything other than that the investors here really don't care. In their view, their goal is to return capital (and by extension, further their career and life), not play judge. The investors who chose not to comment are pretty cowardly, IMO.

The investors should care, if not for human decency, then for their bottom line. Litigating or settling sexual harassment is very expensive - and being the cause of one is a demonstration of exceedingly poor judgement.

There is no litigation here–what are you going on about?

Re: Sex Scandal Toppled a Silicon Valley Chief. Investors Say, So What?

#17

Post by eps » Sat, Jul 28, 2018, 8:35 PM UTC

vkou wrote: post #5

toomchsauce wrote: post #3

He wasn’t sexually assaulting people he just dated someone at work. The article acts like if you break the workplace dating policy you should never work again or have to come crawling back. Would view this as a standard firing for him breaking the rules not really a #MeToo where he’s supposed to go into exile on MeToo island

> He wasn’t sexually assaulting people he just dated someone at work. You can date people at work, but you cannot date people in your reporting chain. That means that if you're the CEO, you cannot date people at work. Tough shit, there's 7 billion other people in the world.

William Gates begs to differ.

Re: Sex Scandal Toppled a Silicon Valley Chief. Investors Say, So What?

#18

Post by cycrutchfield » Sat, Jul 28, 2018, 8:35 PM UTC

toomchsauce wrote: post #3

He wasn’t sexually assaulting people he just dated someone at work. The article acts like if you break the workplace dating policy you should never work again or have to come crawling back. Would view this as a standard firing for him breaking the rules not really a #MeToo where he’s supposed to go into exile on MeToo island

>He wasn’t sexually assaulting people he just dated someone at work.

He was also misusing corporate funds to pursue subordinates, serially lying to his board of directors, and breaking a pledge he had made to them. That's the reason why he was "fired". It was not simply because he had an affair.

Re: Sex Scandal Toppled a Silicon Valley Chief. Investors Say, So What?

#19

Post by faizshah » Sat, Jul 28, 2018, 8:37 PM UTC

bumholio wrote: post #6

vkou wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He wasn’t sexually assaulting people he just dated someone at work. You can date people at work, but you cannot date people in your reporting chain. That means that if you're the CEO, you cannot date people at work. Tough shit, there's 7 billion other people in the world.

That's a bullshit made-up rule, designed by corporate lawyers who want to remove any possibility of a lawsuit. There's nothing immoral about dating an employee; it's a risky situation because the employee can feel pressured and harassed, or it can lead to conflicts of interest, undeserved promotions or bonuses etc. That being said, if both persons are mature and cautious, the sky will not fall.

It's about being in a position of power over the other person.

It's unethical to make advances on someone you hold power over because there's an implication that rejecting the advances could harm their career and their working relationship with the superior.

Re: Sex Scandal Toppled a Silicon Valley Chief. Investors Say, So What?

#20

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jul 28, 2018, 8:37 PM UTC

bumholio wrote: post #6

vkou wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He wasn’t sexually assaulting people he just dated someone at work. You can date people at work, but you cannot date people in your reporting chain. That means that if you're the CEO, you cannot date people at work. Tough shit, there's 7 billion other people in the world.

That's a bullshit made-up rule, designed by corporate lawyers who want to remove any possibility of a lawsuit. There's nothing immoral about dating an employee; it's a risky situation because the employee can feel pressured and harassed, or it can lead to conflicts of interest, undeserved promotions or bonuses etc. That being said, if both persons are mature and cautious, the sky will not fall.

[deleted]