Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities • Hacker News Board

Re: Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

#221

Post by wolfgke » Sat, Jul 28, 2018, 3:05 PM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #182

chongli wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest difference between STEM and everything else is the issue of externalities. Heck, even within STEM you see a spectrum based on externalities. What do I mean? Major in biology and do life-saving research. Unless you can translate that into a biotech patent (or better yet, a biotech company) you won't see much in the way of compensation. The same goes for the humanities and much of the social sciences. Unles…

Are you saying that engineering has no benefit to society?

> Are you saying that engineering has no benefit to society?

Surely it has. But you are compensated for it, because it has a financial benefit for some company.

Re: Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

#222

Post by Moodles » Sat, Jul 28, 2018, 4:09 PM UTC

mlevental wrote: post #204

Moodles wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's hold on a sec because the discussion glossed over this. Are we all just accepting that it's normal for it to be harder for you to get a job because of your skin and gender? That's pretty outrageous and sad.

are you serious.... welcome to the world for literally every era other than hopefully 100 years from now for black people and women

What point are you trying to make to me?

Re: Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

#223

Post by schoen » Sat, Jul 28, 2018, 4:13 PM UTC

AlexCoventry wrote: post #215

seibelj wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“But where then will you have those doing... something something...” In 10 years it has left me, but a few hours with Wheelock and I’m sure I’d get it back!

What is Wheelock?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheelock%27s_Latin

Re: Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

#224

Post by trolleyhacker » Sat, Jul 28, 2018, 5:11 PM UTC

thesagan wrote: post #70

Moodles wrote: post #50

80% of humanities papers are never cited once. 80%. That. is. appalling. http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/impactofsocialsciences/2014/04/23/aca... Social "science" is even more terrifying in my view. 25% of social sciencist identity as Marxist. https://www.econlib.org/archives/2015/03/the_prevalence_1.ht... I don't know how anyone can see these statistics and not think that there is a crisis. I nearly took history at undergrad…

A lot of them are Marxists because they’ve studied it. I’m not exactly Marxist but I’m more terrified by those who judge his works without having legitimately studied it critically and in depth under supervision. He’s a lightning rig for prejudice and too many people equate Marx with Stalin, or believe him to have caused Stalin.

Marx should be "studied ... under supervision?" Such study should be done "legitimately?"

Perhaps it was an unfortunate choice of words, but that sounds a lot like indoctrination and elitism.

Re: Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

#225

Post by Hooke » Sat, Jul 28, 2018, 5:38 PM UTC

azeotropic wrote: post #195

xigma wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your sample size? One? Objectively speaking, if you spend five to six figures on a degree with a 10% chance of landing a job through it, that's not an attractive proposition. "Futile" may be the wrong word, a better word would be "foolish".

If you're paying tuition to do a PhD instead of receiving a stipend, you are being scammed.

Exactly, it's a common misconception that people go into debts for PhDs. The stipends are low, but being paid to learn, travel and do research is not a bad choice for some people.

Re: Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

#226

Post by PrincessZorlda » Sat, Jul 28, 2018, 6:53 PM UTC

seibelj wrote: post #8

I was a double major in CS and Latin, and once I asked my Latin advisor about grad school for Latin. I didn’t intend on going, I was just curious about what she would say as a tenured Latin professor at a good university. The look on her face when I asked was complete shock and she went on a rant about how it was the dumbest idea ever. She told me how she was going on sabbatical to write a book that only 30 people wo…

I was a hard Classics major, Latin and Greek, devoted almost 10 years of my life to it, and I just had to walk away. I'm going back for CS, and this touches my soul. I'm glad I tried for it, but I need to sustain myself and feel like I am worth something at my job. You are not alone, friend.

Re: Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

#227

Post by anoncoward111 » Sat, Jul 28, 2018, 7:00 PM UTC

ewams wrote: post #208

anoncoward111 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taxes on $18,000 is $800 in usa. Entertainment we just do for free through torrenting and walking. Medical expenses, well, we live in the Usa. You just find a way to skate by until you don't. Obviously the political solution needs to be "Medicare for all", but I don't have the power to fight the multi billion dollar insurance lobby :) Living off of savings is sustainable if you have $50,000 saved and only $1,000 a ye…

Where do you live to have 25% loss to taxes from the state + City? Your marginal is 25% to fed... Is this those weird PA taxes? 50% is lol material or you are getting scammed by your accountant.

On a $50,000 salary, I'm keeping $36,000 post tax. But, at least in my personal situation/industry, we face seasonal and unpredictable layoffs.

So the annual rate of $50,000 is inaccurate (Americans always boast about their annual pretax salary). I face usually 3 months of unemployment every year, so 9 x $3,000 post tax per month = $27,000 a year

Sorry if that wasn't clear. I would really prefer to have guaranteed but lower income.

Re: Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

#228

Post by anoncoward111 » Sat, Jul 28, 2018, 7:13 PM UTC

wallace_f wrote: post #146

anoncoward111 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taxes on $18,000 is $800 in usa. Entertainment we just do for free through torrenting and walking. Medical expenses, well, we live in the Usa. You just find a way to skate by until you don't. Obviously the political solution needs to be "Medicare for all", but I don't have the power to fight the multi billion dollar insurance lobby :) Living off of savings is sustainable if you have $50,000 saved and only $1,000 a ye…

Just a nitpick, but medicare for all is not necessarily an obvious solution for those who want universal healthcare

I can see where you are coming from. Ironically I have been working as a group health broker for 6 months now and I can tell you that at least from my inside view, this industry is incredibly, incredibly broken. The incentive structure is perverse.

There is no reason why losing your job should mean the choice between paying $800 a month for Cobra or going uninsured. Medicaid fills this problem ($30 in NY state for those who make I believe below $19,000 a year), but many doctors do not accept it.

So I think it's time to either force doctors to work for less or to force the rich to pay for Medicare for all. Because right now prices are inflated and only the rich/employed can afford relatively accetable care.

And no, even I don't have coverage in this job! XD

Re: Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

#229

Post by scott_s » Sat, Jul 28, 2018, 8:29 PM UTC

CuriouslyC wrote: post #211

mlevental wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

are you serious.... welcome to the world for literally every era other than hopefully 100 years from now for black people and women

The thing about reverse discrimination that makes it particularly egregious is that on some level people view it as more socially acceptable than traditional discrimination. Discrimination based on superficial characteristics is always, and equally wrong in all cases. Furthermore, reverse discrimination actually perpetuates the very rift that its proponents decry.

I don't want to argue the merits, but I do want to point out where the argument is. What you consider "reverse discrimination" I consider attempts to change the result of centuries of oppression. Such attempts take many forms. I do not think such attempts perpetuates the problem, but rather are attempts to rectify it.

Again, I'm not trying to argue this on its merits. I just was surprised by your wording, because I got the impression that you took the matter as settled, when it is very contested.

Re: Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

#230

Post by woodandsteel » Sat, Jul 28, 2018, 9:24 PM UTC

woodruffw wrote: post #31

seibelj wrote: post #8

I was a double major in CS and Latin, and once I asked my Latin advisor about grad school for Latin. I didn’t intend on going, I was just curious about what she would say as a tenured Latin professor at a good university. The look on her face when I asked was complete shock and she went on a rant about how it was the dumbest idea ever. She told me how she was going on sabbatical to write a book that only 30 people wo…

I received the same rant/incredulity from several of my own professors (in Philosophy). It was incredibly disheartening to see academics essentially give up on any sort of robust future for their field.

Basically the philosophy profession has given up on trying to persuade students and society as a whole of its value.

I think to a great extent this is due to the logical-positivism and Russellian analytic focus that took over the profession after WWII. Before that American philosophers focused on classical philosophy, Hegelianism, and Pragmatism, all of which could be related to the realities of contemporary life and society.

But then, as Rorty has explained, philosophers got the idea of turning their field into an exact science that would be the handmaiden of the natural and social sciences. This made philosophy inaccessible to non-specialists, and furthermore was a gigantic intellectual failure. One result was the profession came to be populated by several generations of teachers who have no idea about how to talk to non-philosophers. Hence you get people like Steven Hawking and Neil Degrasse Tyson arguing that philosophy is irrelevant. And the only other group is the postmodernists, who tend to be marxists who turn off most Americans.

All this is quite unfortunate, in part because liberal democracy is based to a great extent on philosophical ideas that go back to the Greeks, and hence philosophy has a great deal to say that is relevant today.