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Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

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Re: Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

#91

Post by chongli »

donbright wrote: post #57

You know what's funny is how many topics on 'hacker news' are basically questions of sociology or anthropology or economics or psychology. If you could make some kind of AI that would color the comments here based on what academic discipline they were most closely linked to, I think it would just be a sea of colors that fall under the 'humanities' or 'liberal arts' umbrella. It's not that people aren't deeply interes…

The biggest difference between STEM and everything else is the issue of externalities. Heck, even within STEM you see a spectrum based on externalities.

What do I mean? Major in biology and do life-saving research. Unless you can translate that into a biotech patent (or better yet, a biotech company) you won't see much in the way of compensation. The same goes for the humanities and much of the social sciences. Unless the work you do can be directly captured and used to generate profit, you won't be compensated adequately. The positive externalities you produce that benefit society come right out of your own pocket.

On the opposite end of the spectrum you have people doing CS and mathematical finance working as quants for banks like Goldman Sachs or people studying geo engineering and working in oil/gas/mineral exploration. There you are capturing everything for your employer and pushing the negative externalities on society. Little wonder that those happen to be some of the most lucrative opportunities for STEM grads.

Re: Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

#92

Post by AmericanChopper »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #65
AmericanChopper wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly is obviously hostile about our universities? Is it the safe spaces? Is it the lower standards applied to minorities and women to make it easier to get in? Is it all of the scholarships open only to minorities and women? Universities are quite obviously the most inclusive and least hostile place in the world for minorities and women.

Yeah, talking about the industry generally. I see you already have your “safe spaces” straw man all set up so I think I’ll just leave you to it.

It’s not a straw man at all, it’s an accurate description of acedemia. Now you’re saying it’s the industry’s fault (never mind that the industry generally practices the same affirmative action as universities do). But that can’t possibly be the case because the industry doesn’t have enough female and minority stem graduates to hire “enough” women and minorities.

Re: Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

#93

Post by AmericanChopper »

groby_b wrote: post #81
AmericanChopper wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly is obviously hostile about our universities? Is it the safe spaces? Is it the lower standards applied to minorities and women to make it easier to get in? Is it all of the scholarships open only to minorities and women? Universities are quite obviously the most inclusive and least hostile place in the world for minorities and women.

Assuming you even have a degree: People like you. People who parrot the same sound bites you do. That's what is making our universities hostile.

You know this isn’t a rational argument at all right? You’re literally defending a baseless assertion with “no, you!”.

Re: Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

#94

Post by AmericanChopper »

wnissen wrote: post #77
AmericanChopper wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly is obviously hostile about our universities? Is it the safe spaces? Is it the lower standards applied to minorities and women to make it easier to get in? Is it all of the scholarships open only to minorities and women? Universities are quite obviously the most inclusive and least hostile place in the world for minorities and women.

The percentage of all PhDs earned by women has just, in the last ten years, hit 50%. Of the STEM fields only biology has over 50%, and engineering, physics, and math are in the 20s. A lot of strides have been made, but "most inclusive and least hostile" is not born out by the data. https://www.aps.org/programs/education/statistics/fraction-p...

You’re aware this is circular reasoning right?

>Why aren’t there more women studying stem?

Because University is a hostile environment.

>How do you know that?

Because there aren’t more women studying stem.

Re: Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

#96

Post by ellius »

seibelj wrote: post #8

I was a double major in CS and Latin, and once I asked my Latin advisor about grad school for Latin. I didn’t intend on going, I was just curious about what she would say as a tenured Latin professor at a good university. The look on her face when I asked was complete shock and she went on a rant about how it was the dumbest idea ever. She told me how she was going on sabbatical to write a book that only 30 people wo…

My conversation with two of my professors pretty much sealed my future as far as getting away from a history PhD. I did a Master's, and I'm glad I tried it, but when I asked the two profs I was closest with whether it was worth continuing with all of the negative things I had read and experienced, they both gave a very clear "we aren't supposed to say this, but get the fuck out while you still can." It's really unfortunate. I love history, I love teaching, but the market is just a meat grinder these days. A few years after I had quit, I was working for the back office at a bank doing anti-fraud work. A guy who had been a sociology professor for about fifteen years had just left academia to join us. I asked him, "Do you miss it?" He said, "I miss the idea of it, but that's not what it is." It's a shame, but there you go.

Re: Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

#97

Post by dralley »

anoncoward111 wrote: post #84
seibelj wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard to live and work around Boston on $18,000 salary

My rent and food in NYC are less than $14,000 with roommates. I have a savings if something goes wrong.

Take out taxes, transportation, entertainment, medical expenses, etc. Living off of savings for emergencies is inherently not sustainable. Setting aside retirement entirely.

Re: Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

#98

Post by grimbly »

rdtsc wrote: post #52
woodruffw wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I received the same rant/incredulity from several of my own professors (in Philosophy). It was incredibly disheartening to see academics essentially give up on any sort of robust future for their field.

Isn't it better they are honest rather than set unrealistic expectations that students will regret years later.

How funny that someone taking the holier-than-thou approach cannot even use the right punctuation.

Re: Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

#99

Post by charleslmunger »

As everyone knows, the costs of a humanities degree (or any degree) has been increasing much faster than inflation - while at the same time, the earnings potential of a humanities degree has dropped. Student loan debt and high housing costs are shackling a generation of college graduates.

Undergraduate tuition and fees at the author's university total nearly $50,000 a year - and that's without counting food, textbooks, rent, etc. Even with help from financial aid, that is a huge amount of money (largely paid for by non-dischargeable debt) to spend on a degree that doesn't provide significant new career prospects.

Re: Mea culpa: there is a crisis in the humanities

#100

Post by dqpb »

cs702 wrote: post #60

Indeed. Instead of seeking a broader understanding of the world and a greater ability to question and think critically about it, more students are seeking knowledge of a more practical nature that can lead to better employment opportunities in the near term. It's understandable. On the whole, I don't think this is good... but this has been coming for a long time, due to many reasons, including: * a broken funding sys…

> Instead of seeking a broader understanding of the world and a greater ability to question and think critically about it

I would argue that education in Math, Physics, Science, Engineering, etc, give you this ability far better than humanities do.

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