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The death of Don Draper?

newstatesman.com

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Re: The death of Don Draper?

#61

Post by ghaff »

rcar1046 wrote: post #27
roman_savchuk wrote: post #11

>The brand getting the most buzz in the car industry is Tesla Nope, It’s nowhere near that. The fact that tech media writes a lot about a car manufacturer doesn’t make it the most popular manufacturer in the world and brief google trends research shows that.

Tesla even managed to stand out in this very article when it is only briefly mentioned with multiple comments alluding to this brief mention. I'd say it's quite safely the car industry leader in buzz, if nothing else.

In this bubble. I think a lot of people here would probably be surprised how many automobile purchasers have never even heard of Tesla--or at least are only vaguely aware it's "that electric car company."

Re: The death of Don Draper?

#62

Post by skybrian »

IAmGraydon wrote: post #47

Outright advertising in the old school sense is dead and has been for a long time. Marketing is not. I think this author is deeply confused. Now, more than ever, the perceived value of cheap products is being inflated by brand. Look how much people pay for a can of Red Bull, which offers less volume than a soda and less caffeine than a coffee. Look at how much people pay for Starbucks coffee and Hermès purses. It’s a…

It seems important to you to prove that certain products are objectively bad, and the people who like them are somehow wrong to do so. Why? Tastes differ.

Re: The death of Don Draper?

#63

Post by mcguire »

tim333 wrote: post #24

>In 2016, Facebook in effect charged the Trump campaign lower rates than the Clinton campaign, because Trump’s ads made people angrier and thus generated more clicks. Nobody took a decision to charge Trump less. It was the logical outcome of the ad business’s core principle: the more attention you win, the more you get paid. Since negative emotions are more likely to win and hold attention than positive emotions, the…

Then there is this:

"[In a recent article for the New York Times, the sociologist Zeynep Tufekci] found the same pattern on non-political topics: videos about vegetarianism led to videos about veganism; videos about jogging led to videos about ultra-marathons. The stakes were always being upped. YouTube, she concluded, was a “radicalising instrument”. That isn’t, she says, because YouTube’s engineers are zealots. It’s because Google (YouTube’s owner) is selling attention to advertisers, and its algorithms have learnt that the best way to keep people hooked is to push ever more extreme material on them."

It's pessimistic, since by design it can only get worse.

Re: The death of Don Draper?

#64

Post by paulcole »

skybrian wrote: post #62
IAmGraydon wrote: post #47

Outright advertising in the old school sense is dead and has been for a long time. Marketing is not. I think this author is deeply confused. Now, more than ever, the perceived value of cheap products is being inflated by brand. Look how much people pay for a can of Red Bull, which offers less volume than a soda and less caffeine than a coffee. Look at how much people pay for Starbucks coffee and Hermès purses. It’s a…

It seems important to you to prove that certain products are objectively bad, and the people who like them are somehow wrong to do so. Why? Tastes differ.

> Tesla is so good at marketing that they’ve bamboozled the author and he doesn’t even realize it.

Just curious, do you disagree with this?

Re: The death of Don Draper?

#65

Post by milesvp »

skybrian wrote: post #62
IAmGraydon wrote: post #47

Outright advertising in the old school sense is dead and has been for a long time. Marketing is not. I think this author is deeply confused. Now, more than ever, the perceived value of cheap products is being inflated by brand. Look how much people pay for a can of Red Bull, which offers less volume than a soda and less caffeine than a coffee. Look at how much people pay for Starbucks coffee and Hermès purses. It’s a…

It seems important to you to prove that certain products are objectively bad, and the people who like them are somehow wrong to do so. Why? Tastes differ.

Nonsense! One of marketing's main purpose is to convince you that some thing is superior in some way regardless of whether or not it's objectively true (or even objectively provable).

Tastes differ, but we're talking about marketing, and I tend agree with the parent post that Tesla's marketing around their cars is much better than the production quality or design of the cars.

Re: The death of Don Draper?

#66

Post by tokipin »

braythwayt wrote: post #57
Snackchez wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might have slightly misconstrued the parent comment. To rework your idea: there's a spectrum for the quality of kisses. Some people figured out a way to convince you that their kisses are better than they actually are. Others are likely better, but they don't know how to market themselves, and thus don't get kissed as much.

The trouble is that a product delivers a complex set of values upon its user, and all-too-often, when someone sneers that it doesn’t have any value, that it’s “just marketing” conning its users, they are willfully ignoring the values that it confers. I have spent literally my entire adult life listening to people say that Apple products were inferior to PCs, going right back to the days when they’d explain that bit-m…

> Most people who participate in the threads do so for complex social reasons that are not particularly different than the reasons that some people buy Starbucks, some people buy from an indie shop, and some people hit the Timmie’s drive-through.

To make a stronger statement, there is "actual" value, it's just that people are bad at describing it. Many people will go to Starbucks every day because "they like it" and that's about as good an explanation as you can get out of them. But they didn't just wake up one day and decide they were going to like Starbucks.

For me personally, I like the consistency of Starbucks. If you order the same drink at two different stores you'll get the same drink. This isn't something that a large corporation like that does on accident. It requires a lot of effort to get that consistency. And it's just one of the many reasons someone will like Starbucks without recognizing it's one of the reasons.

People similarly like Apple products for reasons that sound vague ("it's easier to use") but which are not an accident. Apple is highly vertically integrated to ensure many of those reasons. It's no coincidence that Tesla is also vertically integrated.

Re: The death of Don Draper?

#67

Post by [deleted] »

amorphid wrote: post #49
conanbatt wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you make a big mistake in using the word 'inflated'. The joy of doing something is configured in our brains, and we enjoy that. Science has shown that we like and are willing to pay more for things merely on the brand. Its like saying that all kisses are the same, its inflated that you want it from a specific person!

I usually buy brand name over generic stuff because it is quantifiably better to me in some way. Cereal that tastes better, garbage bag doesn't rip, etc.

[deleted]

Re: The death of Don Draper?

#68

Post by pjc50 »

eksemplar wrote: post #15
xfs wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article talks about mass advertising. The true story here is the advent of surveillance capitalism in which data-driven behavioral manipulation is the new means of production. You can see a curious parallel in the death of psychoanalysis and the rise of evidence-based psychology and CBT but somehow depression is still not getting better. I don't believe Man is as simple as something to be fully captured by psycho…

I just have missed that, reading the piece. I wonder how well that’s working out though. I work in the public sector of Scandinavia, and we’re doing various tests on ML and it’s honestly turning out to be really bad at predicting anything. It doesn’t always fail, but it fails more than rolling a die.

Ironically 'machine learning' has tremendous marketing.

Re: The death of Don Draper?

#69

Post by [deleted] »

yellowcherry wrote: post #40
kristianc wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You want to sell a da Vinci? Well then you have to make private meetings with potential clients, and, you have to create ads that sell it as iconic. That’s sales, not marketing. You wouldn’t bother to create ads for a Da Vinci, as the pool of people with the means to buy one is so small and the process of buying one is so convoluted. See also jet engines. > You want to make people buy your brand of beer? Well you h…

As the article explains, they did make ads for the Da Vinci. Several, in fact. To make it "iconic", they built up the brand. The ad that's just looking at people looking at it is brilliant, really a work of art on its own. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsEAJkTP0-M The effort that went into selling that painting is one of the more fascinating stories of the last year.

[deleted]

Re: The death of Don Draper?

#70

Post by pixl97 »

distances wrote: post #29
chairmanwow wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You actually make a really interesting point here. Advertising has permeated nearly every segment of media consumption. An interesting example is articles like this, and “reviews” of products that are actually paid adverts where the “reviewers” get kickbacks for every referral that leads to a sale. [1] [1] https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.fastcompany.com/3065928/sle...

On the other hand, it's now easier than ever to avoid all marketing in media. In the analog world you couldn't install an adblocker to your newspaper, or purchase a tv subscription without ads, or choose a radio station without ads in between. Now it's all available, and at least my world is almost completely advertisement-free -- except for those paid reviews you mentioned.

Heh, I think you're fooling yourself when you say 'all' marketing. The ads now are gamed customer reviews and paid comments.
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