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Indian warrior king's rocket cache found in abandoned well

theguardian.com

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Re: Indian warrior king's rocket cache found in abandoned well

#31

Post by StavrosK »

ajmurmann wrote: post #25
srean wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a very interesting point and was hoping HN'ers would add to my understanding, so thank you. I would be very interested to know how it works, for example, in Rome where "you cant miss a historical artifact if you throw a stone" applies with great force.

Don't know about Rome but in Germany people see it as part of their heritage and identity and get excited when new stuff gets discovered

What do you mean "discovered"? I may be confused, but I thought we're talking about hundred-year-old houses? In Greek cities, there are villas that are 100-150 years old and beautifully built. We aim to restore those, as they're beautiful buildings and nice reminders of an earlier era, but they are thought of as "almost modern". Ancient stuff is anything that's more than two thousand years old or so, and those definitely have higher significance (although you can barely dig a hole without finding a bunch of those too).

Re: Indian warrior king's rocket cache found in abandoned well

#32

Post by srean »

StavrosK wrote: post #31
ajmurmann wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't know about Rome but in Germany people see it as part of their heritage and identity and get excited when new stuff gets discovered

What do you mean "discovered"? I may be confused, but I thought we're talking about hundred-year-old houses? In Greek cities, there are villas that are 100-150 years old and beautifully built. We aim to restore those, as they're beautiful buildings and nice reminders of an earlier era, but they are thought of as "almost modern". Ancient stuff is anything that's more than two thousand years old or so, and those defini…

My '100 year old house' example was to point out that _even_ for a 100 year old houses Americans care a whole lot. I think ajmurmann here is talking about older archeological findings.

Regarding digging, you might find it funny that Indus valley civilization got discovered thanks to their bricks that the British found while laying railway tracks in North Western India. Those where being used as free and cheap but high quality ballast. So its indeed true in some regions one has to take care to miss.

Re: Indian warrior king's rocket cache found in abandoned well

#33

Post by eklavya »

pkphilip wrote: post #18
swombat wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's no accident though. Divide and Conquer was a core conquest and governance strategy for the British Empire, one that has left scars across the world that are still causing conflict today.

India has always had conflicts between communities with 100s of individual kingdoms and warlords - some were vassals to bigger kingdoms. The modern day revisionist history tries to paint India as some sort of a united, utopia before the coming of the colonial powers but there is no evidence whatsoever to support that claim while there is plenty of evidence to counter it.

I don't think you are saying that India was never a united entity in it's history. It has been united multiple times throughout. In fact that's how it got the name "Bharat" after one if the kings.

Re: Indian warrior king's rocket cache found in abandoned well

#34

Post by greglindahl »

mdani wrote: post #30

Tipu made the first indigenous rocket is a myth. There is ample evidence that the indigenous rockets were in use in Deccan at least 100 years before Tipu’s time. History of Aurangzeb’s reign, the Farsi manuscript of Mathir-i Alamgiri and the official records of the reign called Akhbarat-i Darbar-i Mualla mention Aurangzeb examining an indigenously made rocket at the siege of Satara diring his wars in Deccan in 1700 A…

Can you point out where this article claims Tipu made the first indigenous rocket? I don't see that said anywhere.

Re: Indian warrior king's rocket cache found in abandoned well

#35

Post by linuxkerneldev »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #28
linuxkerneldev wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> were the Nazis and the Soviets to unite they would have canned the Americans a few times over Something about that analogy is off. In case we forgot, in the 1800s, the British were the guys advocating and initiating ethnic cleansing of "inferior races" via engineered famines. Various parts of British occupied East India lost a third or more of their population. It was only that regions good fortune of having virule…

>the British were the guys advocating and initiating ethnic cleansing of "inferior races" via engineered famines // Specific details, citations? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famine_in_India hints that British inaction exacerbated famine but I don't see details to indicate famine was engineered for ethnic cleansing. I'm not disagreeing, it's the first I've heard of it really. There's plenty there to suggest capital…

> Specific details, citations?

Winston Churchill. Even as recent as 1943.

Churchill: Personally, I am not greatly concerned about Russian development in China. I would rather have them develop in that way down south into India. I believe in the ultimate partition of China—I mean ultimate. I hope we shall not have to do it in our day. The Aryan stock is bound to triumph.

Churchill: I do not admit for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1943

> I don't see details to indicate famine was engineered for ethnic cleansing

We have to be careful to view this from the broad system level perspective. We have individuals like Churchill who expressed a clear racial belief system. A belief system where they believed, and even directly stated it was their manifest destiny to extinguish inferior races. In their positions of power, through intentional actions (and alleged inactions), they caused large numbers of their prey/victims to die. Should we attribute that to "capitalism was working as intended" or should we actually call a spade a spade and recognize that these men had agency and did these things consciously or at best sub-consciously to achieve lebensraum for their preferred race.

Re: Indian warrior king's rocket cache found in abandoned well

#36

Post by sumedh »

srean wrote: post #19
sumedh wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are not talking about 100 year old houses, pretty much every Hindu knows about Dwarka. So lack of funding and lack of interest are not good excuses.

I think you missed my point -- we have so much historical artifacts strewn around that we don't value them as much or fund their upkeep as much.

No I did not miss your point but on the other hand you missed mine, yes we have historical artifacts but Dwarka trumps all the other artifacts.

Re: Indian warrior king's rocket cache found in abandoned well

#37

Post by sumedh »

cryptozeus wrote: post #24
srean wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you missed my point -- we have so much historical artifacts strewn around that we don't value them as much or fund their upkeep as much.

Yup thats a good point. Forget about the submerged dwarka, there is so much old architecture all around in india and no one cares for it or take care of it. We just simply don’t care. Go look at the forts in rajasthan ans how they are treated vs forts jn all around Europe.

> Forget about the submerged dwarka

Why, submerged dwarka is more important to Hindus than all those forts.

Re: Indian warrior king's rocket cache found in abandoned well

#38

Post by jonhendry18 »

linuxkerneldev wrote: post #35
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the British were the guys advocating and initiating ethnic cleansing of "inferior races" via engineered famines // Specific details, citations? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famine_in_India hints that British inaction exacerbated famine but I don't see details to indicate famine was engineered for ethnic cleansing. I'm not disagreeing, it's the first I've heard of it really. There's plenty there to suggest capital…

> Specific details, citations? Winston Churchill. Even as recent as 1943. Churchill: Personally, I am not greatly concerned about Russian development in China. I would rather have them develop in that way down south into India. I believe in the ultimate partition of China—I mean ultimate. I hope we shall not have to do it in our day. The Aryan stock is bound to triumph. Churchill: I do not admit for instance, that a…

Your example, while certainly a good one, is from 1943, rather late considering the empire would start shrinking and decolonizing in 45.

Re: Indian warrior king's rocket cache found in abandoned well

#39

Post by linuxkerneldev »

jonhendry18 wrote: post #38
linuxkerneldev wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Specific details, citations? Winston Churchill. Even as recent as 1943. Churchill: Personally, I am not greatly concerned about Russian development in China. I would rather have them develop in that way down south into India. I believe in the ultimate partition of China—I mean ultimate. I hope we shall not have to do it in our day. The Aryan stock is bound to triumph. Churchill: I do not admit for instance, that a…

Your example, while certainly a good one, is from 1943, rather late considering the empire would start shrinking and decolonizing in 45.

> Your example, while certainly a good one, is from 1943, rather late considering the empire would start shrinking and decolonizing in 45.

Again, as mentioned, I gave the 1943 example to point out how recent such colonial actions and attempts at ethnic cleansing were. There are people alive today who suffered through that.

There's ample examples of other genocides via famine performed by the English against ethnic groups they were subjugating at the time. For one closer to home, lets look at the English activity behind the Irish famine.

https://www.irishcentral.com/news/proving-the-irish-famine-w...

Baronet Charles Trevelyan was one of the engineers behind that famine. Interestingly enough he had honed his skills of bulk-murder in India.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_Charles_Trevelyan,_1st_Bar...

"The real evil with which we have to contend is not the physical evil of the Famine, but the moral evil of the selfish, perverse and turbulent character of the people"

"Famine is an effective mechanism for reducing surplus population"

As usual, such individuals used all manner of tools to justify the genocide of any ethnic group they deemed "inferior". In this case, the Irish. It is telling that one of the major tools was that precise instrument of religion with Trevelyan even describing the famine and subsequent mass death as an instrument of God.

Re: Indian warrior king's rocket cache found in abandoned well

#40

Post by srean »

sumedh wrote: post #36
srean wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you missed my point -- we have so much historical artifacts strewn around that we don't value them as much or fund their upkeep as much.

No I did not miss your point but on the other hand you missed mine, yes we have historical artifacts but Dwarka trumps all the other artifacts.

That would be an opinion though. That said, there would be significant number of subscribers in Gujarat and among the Krishna school.

I have the strongest suspicion that there would be a significant population of people who self identify as Hindu but would have at best tepid interest. There would be people who would be unhappy that their taxes are going in that direction. Day to day mundane matters and relative importance of other artifacts according to their judgement will trump it (Dwarka).

From your comments in the thread it seems you are a shade touchy about Dwarka and were taking obvious metaphors literally, but I couldn't figure out how it (Dwarka) fit in what we were discussing in the thread -- lack of wide interest among Indians on historical artifacts. So I let it ('but, what about Dwarka') go as an instance of whataboutism.

My personal belief/opinion is that it makes a lot of sense to explore that(Dwarka) than throw money at the stupid idea that the geological formation connecting main land India to Srilanka is a man made bridge built by Ram's army.

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