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How did Google get so big?

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Re: How did Google get so big?

#221

Post by stuckinarut »

tills13 wrote: post #93
zjaffee wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not so much they are hurting anyone, since they have made it virtually impossible to compete with them. Say you do a search for a particular location, the first thing that pops up to the the top of the page is a box with some information pulled from wikipedia and a link/image of it on google maps. Search for a band, and you see the same with links to youtube and google music. Search for online storage and you se…

if they're _purposefully_ ranking their own services above competing services, then yes, I agree they should be fined until they stop. _however_, more often than not, their own service is _exactly_ what I'm looking for - be it GPM/YouTube/Maps/etc. It's not really their fault they're head and shoulders above the competition/the de-facto provider for most of the content people search for every day (well, maybe it is t…

Worth noting they have been fined int he EU for this behaviour. They destroyed some guys business with their self promotion.

Google has too much power. They should be broken up for hte good of society.

Re: How did Google get so big?

#222

Post by xg15 »

briandear wrote: post #121
xg15 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Your product" is something completely different if you're a mom-and-pop shop or startup or if you have 90% market share. This is why antitrust exists and what arguments like this always seem to ignore.

Is the consumer being harmed? That’s the only question that matters in anti-trust. That mom and pop can’t compete isn’t a symptom of a monopoly, it’s a symptom of mom and pop not doing more to be the best choice. Mom and pop could compete if they had a better, cheaper product. If you want to compete — be better than the competition. Many startups are not — that isn’t the fault of Google.

Yes, e.g. by stiffling sale of alternative Android-based operating systems, as the EU just concluded. Google uses their market power and control over Android to give competing OSes a disadvantage, whether or not they would be better than Android/Google Play.

Re: How did Google get so big?

#223

Post by stuckinarut »

bepotts wrote: post #110
tills13 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if they're _purposefully_ ranking their own services above competing services, then yes, I agree they should be fined until they stop. _however_, more often than not, their own service is _exactly_ what I'm looking for - be it GPM/YouTube/Maps/etc. It's not really their fault they're head and shoulders above the competition/the de-facto provider for most of the content people search for every day (well, maybe it is t…

Exactly. I really don't understand why people try and muddy the waters around Google products. I'm not forced to use Google; Google products are just damn good. Having a monopoly in a market due to the fact that your product is just that good isn't a bad thing, and punishing companies for being successful sets an awful precedent (which is why breaking up Google isn't going to happen). From search, maps, email, YouTub…

Is it because their products are that good, or because they have one monopoly that also functions as a money hose that they can aim as needed to decimate competition in other areas.

Re: How did Google get so big?

#224

Post by eksemplar »

grosjona wrote: post #116
wallflower wrote: post #8

If I could give a six word response for the technical side: "Jeff Dean, Sanjay Ghemawat and team". To paraphrase some Cal/UC Berkeley professor that I cannot remember, he said that the problem with scaling is that when you go up a magnitude or more, you may need a qualitatively different solution for the same problem. Jeff Dean and Sanjay Ghemawat and their team have time and time again managed to design and build st…

I think that Google's dominance has almost nothing to do with technology and almost everything to do with customer lock-in. For me, duckduckgo.com is as good as Google but I still use Google because it's the default search engine for Chrome's address bar - And that's where I do all my searches from these days. If Duckduckgo made their own browser which was of the same quality as Chrome then I would definitely conside…

DuckDuckGo is terrible for non English speakers though.

Re: How did Google get so big?

#225

Post by stuckinarut »

ur-whale wrote: post #161
zjaffee wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are their products that good? What is it that makes content creators publish on youtube rather than on other platforms. I'd argue that a huge part of this is the fact that youtube gives creators more visibility than other places, and since google is able to leverage search in addition to their advertising business to bring more eyes to youtube is the reason for the platforms success. I think your confusing google…

>Namely, the equity value of google would be more balanced with other smaller firms, and in turn we'd see more very rich people rather than fewer people with net worths well over 10 billion. Why would that be a good thing? Or rather, a better thing than the current situation? Why would that even be desirable? Again, antitrust laws exist for one reason: to protect consumers. Not to implement someone's idea of an ideal…

> Why would that be a good thing? Or rather, a better thing than the current situation? Why would that even be desirable?

Because wealth inequality is massively harmful for society. It's the sort of thing that leads to revolution.

> If you believe e.g. that company equity should be more uniformly distributed, go talk to your congressman, have him draft a law to that effect and get congress to vote on it.

and then Google writes him a check and the whole thing goes away. Biggest lobbyist around.

Re: How did Google get so big?

#227

Post by GauntletWizard »

zjaffee wrote: post #162
GauntletWizard wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Travel search engines used to be big business. They still are, but they're hurting, and not a small part of it is due to Google having a onebox of flight info. I personally love that onebox - I book all my flights through it - but I'd have a hard time explaining how it's not anticompetitive. Vertical integration can have some great efficiencies, but it can also destroy once healthy markets, and I only see that gettin…

Are travel search engines hurting? priceline's stock is higher than ever? This said, I agree with you on everything else you've said.

As is Expedias, though Trivago has been terrible since ipo; my assertion was not well founded.

Re: How did Google get so big?

#228

Post by mirimir »

samsonradu wrote: post #210
mirimir wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, so I don't use Facebook. But can one search the Internet via Facebook? Or wait, are you saying that they don't realize that there's anything except Facebook? And yes, I can vaguely remember when all I knew was CompuServe and Econet. And AOL, which only idiots used ;)

> Or wait, are you saying that they don't realize that there's anything except Facebook? Something like that. Maybe they realise but they don't care. Want to read the news? You check out CNN's Facebook page for latest posts. Want to sell something? Use the marketplace. For whatever website most of them would like to visit for information there is a Facebook page available.

> For whatever website most of them would like to visit for information there is a Facebook page available.

So does Google have a Facebook page? ;)

Did media and corporations have a presence on AOL?

Re: How did Google get so big?

#229

Post by stuckinarut »

wilsonnb2 wrote: post #6

So if Google is a monopoly, what should be done about it? Split it up into separate, competing mini-Googles? Keep fining them more and more money until they stop anti-competitive practices? Split off Maps/Android/Drive/etc into separate companies so that Google can't use their search monopoly to dominate those fields? I'm genuinely not sure what the best way to go about this would be.

> Split off Maps/Android/Drive/etc into separate companies so that Google can't use their search monopoly to dominate those fields?

That's what I want.

Re: How did Google get so big?

#230

Post by TomMarius »

frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #72
TomMarius wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No technological progress is bad. Sometimes this progress is used badly, but knowledge is definitely not bad.

You can't separate a technology from it's use. Technology is created to be used. Besides I could just as easily say some knowledge is good and some knowledge is bad. If you want to say that "knowledge is definitely not bad" then I'm going to ask you your own question - can you support that statement?

> You can't separate a technology from it's use. Technology is created to be used.

False. Every day, dozens of thousands of people in academia engage in basic research (actual term), something that does not lead to "usable technology" most of the time.

> some knowledge is good and some knowledge is bad

Are you saying that guns kill people? I thought that people kill people, using guns.

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