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Phoebus cartel

en.wikipedia.org

41–50 of 53 posts

Re: Phoebus cartel

#41
post #30
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this was the case they could simply have left it up to the market to decide the balance of efficiency and life. If your supposition was correct then the hypothetical "5W deep orange" bulb would not have sold.

Assuming that the collusion actually took place, which I don't put my bets in. I remember seeing 'long life lamps' on supermarket when bulbs were a thing, BTW.

Are you implying that the article is a lie?

Re: Phoebus cartel

#42
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Cartels are very interesting: historically few are successful long term OPEC has been around for 57 years and seems to be holding together. My uneducated hunch is that the success of a cartel has to do with how fungible the product is and oil is very near the top of the list.

You're correct, OPEC has been around for almost six decades and still wields significant power. Yet, is it perhaps possible that it has less than it used to? The days when OPEC could single-handedly crash the economies of much of the Western world are mostly gone. There's too much oil production outside of OPEC nations. American frackers have shown an extraordinary ability to respond quickly to price rises, checking…

OPEC has taken to fighting among themselves as well. Saudi Arabia has noped out of agreements at will (granted other OPEC members may have been cheating and doing the same without saying it), notably once during the crazy sub $1 a gallon period in 1998.

Re: Phoebus cartel

#43

" worked to standardize the life expectancy of light bulbs at 1,000 hours (down from 2,500 hours), and raised prices without fear of competition. The cartel tested their bulbs and fined manufacturers for bulbs that lasted more than 1,000 hours.".. Wow. How is this legal?

It isn't, they were a cartel.

Re: Phoebus cartel

#44
philips mentioned here, fun fact about their current tactics... bought some lamp from them which is alarm, it lights instead of makes sounds. simple thing, helps me wake up. the light bulb whent, so i though hey, replace it. easy. unfortunatley, they had superglued the bulb into the socket with a thick layer of hard glue, making it impossible to replace. had to buy an entire new unit (40 euros) instead of light bulb for 1 euro.... ofcourse i didnt/ i just binned it.

Re: Phoebus cartel

#45

" worked to standardize the life expectancy of light bulbs at 1,000 hours (down from 2,500 hours), and raised prices without fear of competition. The cartel tested their bulbs and fined manufacturers for bulbs that lasted more than 1,000 hours.".. Wow. How is this legal?

It isn't, they were a cartel.

It was legal at the time.

Re: Phoebus cartel

#46

" worked to standardize the life expectancy of light bulbs at 1,000 hours (down from 2,500 hours), and raised prices without fear of competition. The cartel tested their bulbs and fined manufacturers for bulbs that lasted more than 1,000 hours.".. Wow. How is this legal?

Oh my gosh, when has legal ever mattered?

It has always mattered. Illegality drives up risk, businesses seek to minimize risk.

The flip side is that if something is illegal but the perceived risk of being caught is lower than the perceived gain, the laws are likely to be broken. That's why fines to businesses tend to be quite steep.

Of course in this case, there was no risk, as cartels were legal at the time.

Re: Phoebus cartel

#47
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article is incredibly biased. Although Phoebus was a price fixing cartel, the "planned obsolescence" is bullshit. Walmart replaces all of their lights and ballasts (power converters for the lights) on a regular schedule. That is why you rarely see lights not working at Walmart anymore. They don't do it because they want all the lights to work. They do it because if they don't, it costs more in energy and the brig…

> the "planned obsolescence" is bullshit Nonsense. We could have light-bulbs that last longer but we don't because someone wants to make more money and can externalize the costs of waste. Planned obsolescence is rampant and getting worse. (How many iPhones have you bought?)

Lightbulbs that last longer can't burn as bright, will use more electricity and do cost more. Nothing stops any company from creating long-lasting lightbulbs and they do in fact exist, but the consumer demand for them isn't necessarily higher because of it.

>> How many iPhones have you bought?

Three. Got a 6S right now, still running well and I'm not looking to upgrade. If I cared about it becoming obsolete, I could get a Shift phone instead.

The reality is that most consumers don't mind swapping phones on a regular basis, they want to go with the technological progress. On the other hand, smartphones aren't getting that much better anymore and consumers are delaying upgrades. If they truly valued long-lasting phones with replaceable parts, those phones would be successful. They're not, they are a small niche.

Re: Phoebus cartel

#49

Reading up on it, it seems like the justification for creating Phoebus was to standardize the industry (it's the reason all of our lightbulbs today follow the same rating system and screw in the same way). But clearly they ran amok to serve their own interests. Cartels are very interesting: historically few are successful long term - there is too much incentive for newcomers to undercut prices. They need something to…

>Cartels are very interesting: historically few are successful long term OPEC has been around for 57 years and seems to be holding together. My uneducated hunch is that the success of a cartel has to do with how fungible the product is and oil is very near the top of the list.

It also helps that it's an intergovernmental organisation rather than a private cartel.

Re: Phoebus cartel

#50

Reading up on it, it seems like the justification for creating Phoebus was to standardize the industry (it's the reason all of our lightbulbs today follow the same rating system and screw in the same way). But clearly they ran amok to serve their own interests. Cartels are very interesting: historically few are successful long term - there is too much incentive for newcomers to undercut prices. They need something to…

>Cartels are very interesting: historically few are successful long term OPEC has been around for 57 years and seems to be holding together. My uneducated hunch is that the success of a cartel has to do with how fungible the product is and oil is very near the top of the list.

I think that legister means that few Cartels, as in a cartel-collaboration-pricing-strategy, are successful in the long term.

Yes OPEC exists as an organization, but it's price-fixing & supply-fixing strategies have failed. Especially in the late 80s there were a lot of defectors from the cartel strategy during the oil glut.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OPEC#1979%E2%80%931980_oil_cri...

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