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Phoebus cartel

en.wikipedia.org

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Re: Phoebus cartel

#21

Post by Kalium »

minikites wrote: post #20
legitster wrote: post #6

Reading up on it, it seems like the justification for creating Phoebus was to standardize the industry (it's the reason all of our lightbulbs today follow the same rating system and screw in the same way). But clearly they ran amok to serve their own interests. Cartels are very interesting: historically few are successful long term - there is too much incentive for newcomers to undercut prices. They need something to…

>Cartels are very interesting: historically few are successful long term OPEC has been around for 57 years and seems to be holding together. My uneducated hunch is that the success of a cartel has to do with how fungible the product is and oil is very near the top of the list.

You're correct, OPEC has been around for almost six decades and still wields significant power.

Yet, is it perhaps possible that it has less than it used to? The days when OPEC could single-handedly crash the economies of much of the Western world are mostly gone. There's too much oil production outside of OPEC nations. American frackers have shown an extraordinary ability to respond quickly to price rises, checking them and OPEC's power both.

OPEC is holding together as a group and cartel! But, outside pressure and internal political differences have severely weakened it...

Re: Phoebus cartel

#22

Post by NeedMoreTea »

minikites wrote: post #20
legitster wrote: post #6

Reading up on it, it seems like the justification for creating Phoebus was to standardize the industry (it's the reason all of our lightbulbs today follow the same rating system and screw in the same way). But clearly they ran amok to serve their own interests. Cartels are very interesting: historically few are successful long term - there is too much incentive for newcomers to undercut prices. They need something to…

>Cartels are very interesting: historically few are successful long term OPEC has been around for 57 years and seems to be holding together. My uneducated hunch is that the success of a cartel has to do with how fungible the product is and oil is very near the top of the list.

OPEC was meant to be a reaction to the Seven Sisters cartel and is much weakened compared to the days of the seventies oil crisis. The majority of world production has been outside of OPEC for years.

What they do have is the most reserves.

Re: Phoebus cartel

#23

Post by martin1b »

" worked to standardize the life expectancy of light bulbs at 1,000 hours (down from 2,500 hours), and raised prices without fear of competition. The cartel tested their bulbs and fined manufacturers for bulbs that lasted more than 1,000 hours.".. Wow. How is this legal?

Re: Phoebus cartel

#24

Post by nbsd4life »

chisleu wrote: post #5
minikites wrote: post #3

This is what results from truly free markets.

The article is incredibly biased. Although Phoebus was a price fixing cartel, the "planned obsolescence" is bullshit. Walmart replaces all of their lights and ballasts (power converters for the lights) on a regular schedule. That is why you rarely see lights not working at Walmart anymore. They don't do it because they want all the lights to work. They do it because if they don't, it costs more in energy and the brig…

> The cartel tested their bulbs and fined manufacturers for bulbs that lasted more than 1,000 hours

If their motivations were pure, they would set a standard for efficiency and/or brightness, or a minimum but not maximum of 1,000 hours.

Re: Phoebus cartel

#25

Post by jrumbut »

nateburke wrote: post #7

Great link in the wikipedia article to Gravity's Rainbow. Love this quote from the Byron the Bulb episode: "His youthful dreams of organizing all the bulbs in the world seem impossible now—the Grid is wide open, all messages can be overheard, and there are more than enough traitors out on the line. Prophets traditionally don't last long—they are either killed outright, or given an accident serious enough to make them…

I was wondering what had caused me to know about this before!

Re: Phoebus cartel

#26

Post by [deleted] »

martin1b wrote: post #23

" worked to standardize the life expectancy of light bulbs at 1,000 hours (down from 2,500 hours), and raised prices without fear of competition. The cartel tested their bulbs and fined manufacturers for bulbs that lasted more than 1,000 hours.".. Wow. How is this legal?

[deleted]

Re: Phoebus cartel

#27

Post by jpatokal »

legitster wrote: post #6

Reading up on it, it seems like the justification for creating Phoebus was to standardize the industry (it's the reason all of our lightbulbs today follow the same rating system and screw in the same way). But clearly they ran amok to serve their own interests. Cartels are very interesting: historically few are successful long term - there is too much incentive for newcomers to undercut prices. They need something to…

Lightbulbs aren't all that standardized though:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightbulb_socket

I had never seen a bayonet mount before I moved to Australia, but they're still reasonably common here.

Re: Phoebus cartel

#28

Post by stephengillie »

jpatokal wrote: post #27
legitster wrote: post #6

Reading up on it, it seems like the justification for creating Phoebus was to standardize the industry (it's the reason all of our lightbulbs today follow the same rating system and screw in the same way). But clearly they ran amok to serve their own interests. Cartels are very interesting: historically few are successful long term - there is too much incentive for newcomers to undercut prices. They need something to…

Lightbulbs aren't all that standardized though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightbulb_socket I had never seen a bayonet mount before I moved to Australia, but they're still reasonably common here.

Bayonet mounts are common for car turn signals, or at least they were in the 1980s and 1990s.

Re: Phoebus cartel

#29

Post by caf »

epx wrote: post #13

Bulb efficiency and bulb life are at odds. In railroad signals, the practice was to use low-power bulbs that barely glowed, and lasted basically forever(nowadays it is all LEDs, Iguess). I am sure no one wants 5W bulbs glowing deep orange at home. Targeting a rather low life is the same as targeting a minimum efficiency.

If this was the case they could simply have left it up to the market to decide the balance of efficiency and life. If your supposition was correct then the hypothetical "5W deep orange" bulb would not have sold.

Re: Phoebus cartel

#30

Post by epx »

caf wrote: post #29
epx wrote: post #13

Bulb efficiency and bulb life are at odds. In railroad signals, the practice was to use low-power bulbs that barely glowed, and lasted basically forever(nowadays it is all LEDs, Iguess). I am sure no one wants 5W bulbs glowing deep orange at home. Targeting a rather low life is the same as targeting a minimum efficiency.

If this was the case they could simply have left it up to the market to decide the balance of efficiency and life. If your supposition was correct then the hypothetical "5W deep orange" bulb would not have sold.

Assuming that the collusion actually took place, which I don't put my bets in. I remember seeing 'long life lamps' on supermarket when bulbs were a thing, BTW.
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