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Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech companies

businessinsider.com

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Re: Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech companies

#231

Post by nostrademons »

_8huj wrote: post #180
nostrademons wrote: post #158

Lotta hate for Mountain View in the comments here, which is ironic because with this ordnance Mountain View is trying to fix a problem that tech companies get a lot of hate on HN for. I've got mixed feelings about this, so I'll try and explain both sides: The problem MV's fixing is the perception that highly-paid tech workers have become a class of their own, isolated from the larger communities in which they live an…

This situation sucks. On one hand, it might lead to higher wages being offered if you can't sell "free food" as a perk of employment. On the other hand, this makes me feel very libertarian and enraged that a local gov is trying to limit where I can get food. Currently I work in IT, and my employer has occasionally made food available with enough regularity that I stay onsite. I don't like having to hike back to my re…

Agreed that the situation sucks. I loved the free food in the Googleplex.

As for other solutions - personally I'd love to see some form of vouchers + electronic ordering system where employees at local businesses could go online, select from the menu, have their employer pick up the tab (perhaps with some quota or auditing so you aren't always eating gourmet on the employers dime), and your phone beeps when your food will be ready in 5 minutes and you can go walk in, flash your employee badge, and pick it up. That gets a lot of the in-house benefits of higher efficiency and less hassle for workers, but also directs money to local restaurants and gives additional consumer choices for workers. It'd likely cost more for the company (who is paying retail prices rather than contracting with a catering company), but that's because the restaurants have more negotiating leverage when they're also open to the public and aren't held hostage by a single customer, which if you're in favor of consumer choice is exactly how it should work.

90% of this system already exists, too, between company credit cards, Concur or other expense-reporting software, online ordering for DoorDash/Yelp/etc, mixed-use developments, decent restaurants, food-is-done buzzers at sit-down restaurants, etc. It's just there's no integrated portal where you can eg. swipe your badge when you order instead of having to pull out your company credit card or get notifications when it's time to walk over.

Re: Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech companies

#232

Post by dmode »

dunpeal wrote: post #214
dmode wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a source for your first assertion ? This link explicitly says that it applies to the Facebook development https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/New-Facebook-Offices-M... They haven't decided whether to expand to cover Google's expansion For the SF rule, it is only proposed by Peskin and Safai. And Peskin himself said on twitter that this is just a proposal.

From TFA: > the city prohibits companies from fully subsidizing meals in the Village, and the rule could spread to other Bay Area cities in the future. So no, it doesn't apply "only to Facebook", it applies to new office complexes, in this particular case the complex called "the Village". It would apply to any companies within that office complex, and potentially any new complexes and offices built in MTV going forwa…

As you pointed out, it only applies to "Village". So my initial assertion was correct.

Peskin will need a majority from the BoS and London Breed on his side to pass this legislation

Re: Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech companies

#233

Post by cbHXBY1D »

ducttapecrown wrote: post #178
optimusclimb wrote: post #3

Man - California, specifically the Valley, is completely off its rocker when it comes to policy making. I really hope Amazon's new HQ helps pave the way to start de-centralizing the tech industry from that one, overcrowded, and increasingly almost hostile spot.

The Silicon Valley is not the Valley. The Valley refers to something in Souther California.

If you're in Northern California it usually refers to Central California Valley which is San Joaquin Valley and Sacramento Valley. If you're in Southern California it usually refers to San Fernando Valley.

Re: Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech companies

#234

Post by jtmcmc »

justizin wrote: post #188

I can see the motivation here for the SF legislation, it is problematic that we tend not to leave the office for lunch, but there are some major issues that the author, Asha Safai, has clearly missed: (a) Twitter, Google, Facebook, and Genentech are grandfathered into their cafeterias, and it's fairly unlikely any other companies will build cafeterias. (b) This is partially because most companies are too small for a…

also genentech is in south san franscisco

Re: Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech companies

#235

Post by srinivasan »

knuththetruth wrote: post #213
acchow wrote: post #176

Laughable. Do these politicians think that the food is conjured out of thin air with magic? These cafeterias are located in the city (just like a restaurant would be), creating jobs in the city (just like a restaurant would), paying good wages and benefits to these people (unlike most restaurants would).

>paying good wages and benefits to these people Absurdity of this proposal aside, most food service workers in these cafeterias are contractors who are not paid well and receive shitty, if any, benefits.

How does working at a cafeteria provider like Bon Appetit compare to working at a restaurant? By that I mean a place where office workers are likely to get lunch daily, where the typical lunch costs Also consider that workplace cafeteria jobs generally have fixed schedules with weekends off.

Re: Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech companies

#236

Post by ams6110 »

jacquesm wrote: post #122
ams6110 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The IRS values stuff like this at fair market value, not wholesale cost. The benefit to the employee is a meal that they would otherwise have to buy at retail. So that's how it's valued. If they were to enforce it.

The benefit to the employee is that he does not have to bring it from home. Why would an employee automatically go out and buy lunch when a much more practical and cheaper alternative is available?

Because preparing lunch at home and bringing it to work is kind of a nuisance? I eat lunch out almost every day and I don't make anything close to Silicon Valley income. Because I don't want to bother with preparing a lunch at home and taking it to work. And I like to get out of the office for an hour. Doesn't really matter why the employee code to accept it, the point is the employee is accepting something of value, and that value is determined based on prevailing market prices for similar things.

Re: Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech companies

#237

Post by jacquesm »

sonnyblarney wrote: post #124
jacquesm wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except of course that the value of the food is not $10 because it is not being bought retail. So the real value is probably more like $2, and even at two full meals per day that would translate to 200 working days times $4 is about $800.

No, value is $10. Cost of ingredients $2. But 'making a nice dish and serving it is labour intensive' and so that brings it up to $9, the remaining $1 would be the profit of the restaurant. A better way to think of it would be how much it would cost otherwise, and it's $10. So the calculation of annual value is pretty much there.

Restaurants don't usually operate at a loss.

Re: Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech companies

#238

Post by jancsika »

ardit33 wrote: post #165
nostrademons wrote: post #158

Lotta hate for Mountain View in the comments here, which is ironic because with this ordnance Mountain View is trying to fix a problem that tech companies get a lot of hate on HN for. I've got mixed feelings about this, so I'll try and explain both sides: The problem MV's fixing is the perception that highly-paid tech workers have become a class of their own, isolated from the larger communities in which they live an…

Yeah, the Communist party in Albania had a great way to deal with 'community involvment' Every first Sunday of the month (Sundays were the only days people had off, as Saturdays were actually work day), people were required to get out, and help clean out the neighborhood in 'cleaning actions'. If you didn't do it, you'd be reprimanded, and if you didn't comply you'd be sent into re-education class, on how community i…

> Anyways, this is not communist 'community involvement' level yet, but the government should have no say on a person's personal private time.

Zoning itself is quite a loud say from the government about what someone may do in their personal private time in their personal private property. For example, you can't run a bakery in your personal private time in an area zoned only for residential use.

Do you think zoning should not be legal?

Re: Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech companies

#239

Post by lovich »

tananaev wrote: post #201
lovich wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont think that's considered a deal breaker for most people, or even a major consideration

If two companies offer offer same salary and similar in every other sense, but one doesn't offer free food, I will choose one that does. If the company that doesn't offer food has +$20 salary per day, I would probably still choose one with food. It's easier, more convenient and probably healthier as well.

All things being equal having food is better, but thats a far cry from asking why anyone would work there

Re: Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech companies

#240

Post by Bramble »

danjoc wrote: post #160
Vordax wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about all the employees that work in the cafeterias at Facebook?

Suddenly everyone cares about their dear Facebook cafeteria workers? https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Facebook-cafeteria-worke... People cheating on their income taxes to the tune of thousands of dollars a year each in free lunches are now more likely to comply with the law. This seems like a step in the right direction.

It's a shame that bay area housing prices, which higher paid tech workers already struggle with, are even more of a burden for Facebook cafeteria workers, who make less money than many of those they serve every day. Thankfully, since your year-old article, Facebook cafeteria workers have unionized. I hope it's helped.

Still, it's unlikely that food service and retail workers in these cities are having an easier time making ends meet. The article you linked acknowledged that the cafeteria workers were making well above CA minimum wage - do you think the same can be said for all the restaurant/shop employees in the bay? Is there a reason we should be more concerned about some service industry employees over others?

Do you have a source for your claim that people are cheating on their income taxes to the tune of thousands of dollars a year?

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