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Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech companies

businessinsider.com

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Re: Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech companies

#211

Post by dunpeal »

JimboOmega wrote: post #203
dunpeal wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Solving the basics is incredibly important. Ah, but you see, it is also difficult! "Dirty streets" and "traffic congestion" are big, messy problems, requiring careful planning, managing projects and contractors, adversarial factors, etc. By contrast, passing laws that apply to corporations is so easy! They are generally law abiding, so you just tell them "no more free food for you!", and they obey. Until, you know,…

I really wonder what it will take to kill this Golden Goose. Bay area employees are already a big premium over employees in other areas, but companies still really want to be here. No free food is almost asinine... but it's not a big thing compared to the extra cost in salaries.

I'm wondering the same. Two growing trends that I'm observing:

1. Businesses moving out of California, especially NorCal. Sergey Brin already said two years ago that he would not have started Google in NorCal today. He was right. There's a lot more interest in other locations, such as Austin.

2. Remote work, and fully remote virtual offices.

Personally I know a bunch of people who declined offers in the SFBay to avoid the pincer squeeze of impossible housing costs + highest tax rate in the nation. A friend of mine did the math and realized that downtown Manhattan (!) was more affordable for him than the Bay.

This stupid rule will not be the last straw. I do think it will deter companies from starting large complexes in MTV specifically, and SF if it passes this same rule.

It is however a sign of the arrogance and greed of municipalities, and their mistaken belief that they can just keep squeezing big tech indefinitely.

Re: Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech companies

#213

Post by knuththetruth »

acchow wrote: post #176

Laughable. Do these politicians think that the food is conjured out of thin air with magic? These cafeterias are located in the city (just like a restaurant would be), creating jobs in the city (just like a restaurant would), paying good wages and benefits to these people (unlike most restaurants would).

>paying good wages and benefits to these people

Absurdity of this proposal aside, most food service workers in these cafeterias are contractors who are not paid well and receive shitty, if any, benefits.

Re: Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech companies

#214

Post by dunpeal »

dmode wrote: post #205
dunpeal wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And that is by Mountain View that only applies to a single office development. That is not true. The rule applies to all new offices in MTV. The Facebook office just happens to be the first new office that was completed with the intention to provide free food, since the law passed. (Applying a rule like that to Facebook alone - on what basis, exactly? - would be discriminatory, unusual, and likely unenforceable.) >…

Do you have a source for your first assertion ? This link explicitly says that it applies to the Facebook development https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/New-Facebook-Offices-M... They haven't decided whether to expand to cover Google's expansion For the SF rule, it is only proposed by Peskin and Safai. And Peskin himself said on twitter that this is just a proposal.

From TFA:

> the city prohibits companies from fully subsidizing meals in the Village, and the rule could spread to other Bay Area cities in the future.

So no, it doesn't apply "only to Facebook", it applies to new office complexes, in this particular case the complex called "the Village". It would apply to any companies within that office complex, and potentially any new complexes and offices built in MTV going forward.

> For the SF rule, it is only proposed by Peskin and Safai. And Peskin himself said on twitter that this is just a proposal.

You only need one lawmaker to propose a new law. Plenty of laws in the book were proposed by one or two lawmakers initially.

> Peskin himself said on twitter that this is just a proposal.

Not sure what tweet you're referring to. The one I've seen seemed very serious and even militant:

> Announcing new leg to ensure on-site tech cafeterias don't continue to chip away at our vibrant neighborhood commercial corridors & small businesses. We're not the suburbs, we're an urban city with a vital local economy that corporations say they want their employees to support

https://twitter.com/AaronPeskin/status/1021856608417021952

He's saying it's even more necessary in SF than in MTV...

Re: Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech companies

#215

Post by StudentStuff »

iamdave wrote: post #135
anonymous5133 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Austin is already a pretty big tech hub

And is already stretching that tiny town thin wrt housing. I gtfo. Felt like the San Francisco of Texas, and not in a way I felt like fighting/putting up with.

Its impressive how a whole corner of the city has been rebuilt for Apple. Not saying I'd wanna live down there, that area has basically no bus service, and is straddled on all sides by freeways and highways (making walking/biking risky), but $1k will get you a decent 1 bed/1 bath apartment blocks from the office.

That being said, Apple pays people peanuts down there, $32k/yr as a contractor ain't much.

Re: Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech companies

#216

Post by torgian »

This is a good thing if done correctly. Companies could potentially use free food and other facilities (at the company) as an excuse to give a lower wage. There’s also perceived pressure to stay late and work. Why go home when you have everything you need at work?

Re: Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech companies

#217

Post by sverige »

gnicholas wrote: post #170

This was covered by the local news [1] and the city council member who was interviewed said: > “We felt the employees who work there should be able to patronize the businesses—the smaller businesses—in this shopping center” Employees already have the ability to patronize these businesses. This law is about compelling patronage. 1: https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/New-Facebook-Offices-M...

Yes, compelling people to buy things that ought to be a personal and private decision is a very popular policy position for governments to take in recent years.

Re: Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech companies

#218

Post by justinzollars »

dragonwriter wrote: post #159
justinzollars wrote: post #114

I'm sorry but this is so f*cking stupid. As a Bay Area resident my priorities are the cost of housing, cleaning our dirty streets and alleviating traffic congestion. This is an example of progressivism gone awry. Solving the basics is incredibly important. Our quality of life is in decline (in the bay area) and this is the best our politicians can do? I'm enraged.

> This is an example of progressivism gone awry. Except it's actually an example of crony capitalism gone...well, perfectly according to design, actually. There's nothing even remotely progressive about restricting all other businesses just to boost business for a particular industry.

The progressives of the Board of Supervisors introduced this. To my knowledge it isn't the moderate members. Perhaps its crony capitalism, perhaps its something more sinister - this plays into the local anti-tech narrative.

Whatever it is, it isn't addressing the important basics to improve our quality of life.

Re: Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech companies

#219

Post by macspoofing »

justinzollars wrote: post #114

I'm sorry but this is so f*cking stupid. As a Bay Area resident my priorities are the cost of housing, cleaning our dirty streets and alleviating traffic congestion. This is an example of progressivism gone awry. Solving the basics is incredibly important. Our quality of life is in decline (in the bay area) and this is the best our politicians can do? I'm enraged.

>As a Bay Area resident

As a Bay Area resident this should be par for the course in terms of the stuff coming from the municipal governments in the area.

Re: Bay Area cities are cracking down on free food at tech companies

#220

Post by Noumenon72 »

iamdave wrote: post #140
optimusclimb wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's "free" in the same sense that the food is.

Contesting this on the grounds that until a line-item on my paystub starts showing up for the cost of a free lunch, I don't think they're comparable at all.

The line-item on your pay stub was a mandate from Obamacare for price transparency. Prior to that the employer contribution for healthcare did not appear.
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